Yeah, I often make disparaging comments about guard systems the same way I do about indies or zoner traders or whatever. There are actually a bunch of good ones, but the rest stink the place out somewhat.
There are a few nice, integrated ones that aren't silly. Prime example would be Baffin, which doesn't stick out at all from surrounding systems and is a real, used part of the universe. Rico is run as 'open house' too, is neutral to a lot of people, like the zoner ones, and features in trade routes. Same with 74 (although yeah, it's proximity to theta is weird. it's basically just more theta.) I heard there were plans to put a junker base in Cassini and try and get that more integrated, and I know the BDS has some plans for Tottori to get that into a more open, useable system.
There's also some that are sort of pointless but ultimately fine, like the BAF one, Salisbury. I guess an army could have some pointless system to do training in? Not really an issue either way.
And then you have all the ones with habitable planets and enormous shipyards.
"-______________________________________________________-"
I know these things look nice, and if you bought the system for 500 million woolongs and get to make it yourself, doing such stuff is tempting. But from my personal standpoint, I just kind of soldier on and deny their existence in the lore.
I agree with Brunhild about there being 'too many' too. I've talked before about how it would be better if all the Rheinland unlawfuls just shared the one system.
Sometimes guard systems are just weird, too. Like the Mollies want Dublin. That's all the want. They are fighting to own Dublin and its gold for themselves. Then you go to Londonderry, and you find a system they already own completely, and it is literally totally covered in gold, and apparently they make like over 9000 billion tonnes of gold a day or whatever. Why would they even care about Dublin? Similarly, Chugoku, Omicron Alpha, Omicron Gamma, systems like that. These are ALREADY 'guard' systems in the lore. Is another system off that one really at all necessary?
Basically I can't help but see a large percentage of guard systems as pointless/silly/oorp 'supernova shops'. But the potential is there to make them decent. Trade routes, jumpholes, non-guard stuff or even, ideally, bases from other factions. But the factions that have like, just the one base, and then a guard system right behind it. There doesn't tend to be much going on there.
Obviously the amount (and largely position) of guard systems is a fait accompli, so whining about that is pointless, but I think they could be populated more in line with disco realism.
' Wrote:As a member of a couple factions who've yet to buy their Guard system, I can say that we do not want a lulsystem, we want things integrated into the rp of the mod, and are considering spending our money to do so.
Anyway, Guard systems cost 500 million. The price was lowered. You're not buying a guard system when you forward your 500 million faction proposal. Point in fact, you're not even buying a faction. You're buying a chance to apply.
LPI paid 1 billion for Illinois.......From whom do we collect it from when guard systems go away?
Formerly known as LPI Police Chief Hull O'Brien.
Creator of Sgt. V. Price, 207th Precinct out of Chula Vista Station
' Wrote:Some guard systems make perfect sense, but others and simply dilly-dally silly.
I can see house militarys having guard systems, but house police?
I can see the large criminal groups having one like the Red Hessians, but the small ones like the Bund?
EDIT: Oh, and the lawful guard systems that have jump hole access only go against vanilla RP, since where ever the houses go or the houses major corporations go in vanilla, they build Jump Gates, no exceptions. (And semi independent corps like IMG and GMG don't really count)
Can we say training grounds, and in the LPI case, a HIGH SECURITY prison? Dont want johnny trader stopping by and helping out escapees do we?
Militaries and house police SHOULD have restricted areas, places where the general public isn't allowed to go....
Roll up to the gates of Fort Dix and complain how you should be allowed free access and lets see how far you get.
Formerly known as LPI Police Chief Hull O'Brien.
Creator of Sgt. V. Price, 207th Precinct out of Chula Vista Station
' Wrote:Please, give us some examples of these systems that are so oorp? I mean, for you guys to be wasting so much time on the subject, they must be pretty bad, no?
While some of the roleplay to the systems, you may not agree on, who died and made you boss of what is and isnt good enough roleplay?
While, yes, i did say that some of them are oorp, i wish to retract that comment, i cant think of any that are oorp.
Actually, I can't think of any either, but I thought you had a thought of one that was I was forgetting. But if you can't think of any, I also retract my comment.
' Wrote:Some guard systems make perfect sense, but others and simply dilly-dally silly.
I can see house militarys having guard systems, but house police?
I can see the large criminal groups having one like the Red Hessians, but the small ones like the Bund?
EDIT: Oh, and the lawful guard systems that have jump hole access only go against vanilla RP, since where ever the houses go or the houses major corporations go in vanilla, they build Jump Gates, no exceptions. (And semi independent corps like IMG and GMG don't really count)
I was thinking about that the other day. It'd be neat if there could be some kind of jumphole stabilizer mechanism near those jumpholes. Like the first stage of a jumpgate sort of idea.
@Malaclypse: I chuckled. But Baffin is an example of a Guard system which is tied into the greater RP whole of Discovery. Likewise, even the SCRA is starting to issue visas for foreign visitors (who get their SCRA rep changed from hostile to neutral).
I want Guard systems to add to the RP of Discovery, not just exist so that the owners can say, "mine, u go away". Even a high security government system could have RP elements and opportunities... But they don't, in general.
@Drake: Even though you edited your comment, so i cant quote what you originally said, i did read your first comments, all my statements originally related to them, although probably went off subject towards the end, but its 3am at the moment, and i'll be suprised if i wake up today and find any of it makes sense.
However, if you edit any of the guard systems to acommodate for rp with the introduction of other factions bases, tradelanes, jumpgates, pirates, etc.
1. It would no longer be a guard system, it would be like any other system.
2. If you do one, you cant prejudice, and have to do them all, including house militaries, which links me to 3.
3. Below is a great reason
' Wrote:
Roll up to the gates of Fort Dix and complain how you should be allowed free access and lets see how far you get.
//Not trying to be rude, just think this whole subject is stupid, no offence
Well, as you mentioned earlier, all you need is a few missions or a bribe. However, doing that just to access a Guard system is pretty far OORP. I'm not even green to the parent faction, but those Guards leave me alone now and I can land on their high-security bases?
Guard systems which include things for factions which they'd never have been given outside the Guard system is pretty far OORP.
Guard systems full of huge numbers of NPCs buffed up to levels FAR beyond what normal top-end NPCs would have is pretty far OORP. Why aren't those pilots off doing things important to that faction, liking taking over a wide swath of Sirius, as it seems they would be capable of doing?
For that matter, having systems which are completely, totally 100% controlled and inhabited by one faction is pretty far OORP. Even Alaska, the most heavily secured system in vanilla (and technically should be in Discovery as well, even including Guard systems), has multiple factions within it, even if it's mostly under LN/LSF control.
Guard systems which, for whatever reason, offer zero RP opportunities within Discovery should be modified, in my opinion. Or the owners should put more effort into adding RP opportunities to their systems. Systems shouldn't exist for the sole purpose of giving a player faction a place where they can A: Put whatever weird stuff they want their faction to have, or B: Exclude people just because they can.
The 'I paid lots of credits' excuse doesn't wash with me whatsoever.
The integration of the guard systems to the surrounding area and the canon RP of the faction should be top priority. If the system was made before the time when RP quality was as high as it is now, then really people should be thinking about editing it, not arguing against the folks here who are putting forward sensible ideas to make Discovery a more authentic experience.
Having to prove yourself by killing your factions enemy or destroying one of their installations, or perhaps even recovering information they are carrying, damn, even assassinating one of their pilots is oorp?
And while yes, you may not be chums with them, you have still proven yourself, and you are not just some outsider, and thats why the guards there dont blast you on sight. Think its too easy to land on their high security base, make it harder to level all guard reps, perhaps minus that of the Zoner Guard, thats something we both agree on.
Why are they so heavily armed you say? Well damn, recall all the weapons/spot lights from all state and federal prisons in USA and re-arm them with spud-guns and solar powered torches, have them keep the prisoners incarcerated now.
Actually, while we're at it, may aswell reform the national guard, take their guns too, they dont need to be well armed to protect their country, they call always ask invaders to leave nicely. *headdesk*
And guard npcs off taking over sirius, why dont we just turn the server into a pvp one, perhaps have
thousands of, "npcs buffed far beyond roleplay" flying around each system, attempting to take over sirius.
And i'd like you all to see the new LN base in Omicron-85, because we need multiple factions in each system due to Alaska being populated by multiple factions
' Wrote:The 'I paid lots of credits' excuse doesn't wash with me whatsoever.
The integration of the guard systems to the surrounding area and the canon RP of the faction should be top priority. If the system was made before the time when RP quality was as high as it is now, then really people should be thinking about editing it, not arguing against the folks here who are putting forward sensible ideas to make Discovery a more authentic experience.
EDIT: What i wrote here was dumb, rewritten underneath
To the first part, its not the fact that the credits have been spent, its that they were spent to make the system how they wanted it, not to have someone with differing views come in and completely trample on their system and say, we'll throw some tradelanes here, a jumpgate or two there, some corporation bases here and there, perhaps a police base planet here, and military base there.
If someone wants there own system, how they want it, theres still systems available for purchase...
To the second part, yes, the systems could be updated to increase roleplay, however, removing half of them, integrating other factions into systems dedicated to one faction and the introduction of jumpgates, tradelanes and pirates, is abit insane no?
//Wow. almost 4am, and i've realised im getting to become really annoying, not only to you guys, but to myself, sleep time, ill check this thread when i wake up, and probably hate myself.
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