Project; "CopyCatsB-Gone"

[Death.RunningVerminator]

looks great!
I say keep it, and try to get it in game.

[tansytansey]

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss293/f...a/orthoside.png
http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss293/f...ena/topcomp.png

And the Switchblade;



http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss293/f...de/forecomp.png
http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss293/f...e/rearortho.png

UGH! NO NO NO!
Making the Dagger fatter may have worked somewhat but this just looks HORRIBLE!
We don't need a fatter Hyena, the thing is already bigger than a damn VHF already. And making the Switchblade fat is completely ruining the sharp, sleek BW design. If this ugly as sin model goes though I'll be swapping back to my Stiletto.

You need to do far more than stretching models to be honest. Any rookie 3D modeller can do this, you have the talent, use it, because this just isn't working. The original models look far -- far better the way they are.

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Image turned into a URL because it made your sig too tall. -Zuke
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[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Rowly]

We don't need a fatter Hyena, the thing is already bigger than a damn VHF already.

i thought the new hyena there was smaller but with more bits

EDIT:

Right then, without further ado the Hyena (yes its smaller, thats actually the idea);

[tansytansey]

i thought the new hyena there was smaller but with more bits

EDIT:

No, he's just squashed the model. Takes about 10 seconds to do in any 3D modelling program.

Rogue ships aren't supposed to be fat, either. They're tall and skinny. There's a reason for that too, if you look at the rocks in the Badlands, they are also tall and skinny. The shape design allows the Liberty Rogues to move swiftly through the badlands, while wider ships clip their wings on the rocks.

If you're just going to edit models... then no, don't do this. If you're going to take the time to make new models, or significantly change existing ones, then sure.

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Image turned into a URL because it made your sig too tall. -Zuke
|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Bauer]

I think this could be a good idea. It'll interesting to see what you come up with for the Liberator.

For lulz:

[8/10/2009 3:51:43 PM] Boss: el-geeko wants to replace all of the duplicates
[8/10/2009 3:51:57 PM] Boss: i.e. Griffin, Switchblade, Liberator, Hyena
[8/10/2009 3:52:56 PM] Christian(Bauer): Mmkay.
[8/10/2009 3:53:13 PM] Boss: Patriot model is a crown vic
[8/10/2009 3:53:15 PM] Boss: mmk?
[8/10/2009 3:53:23 PM] Boss: New proposed model would be a Charger
[8/10/2009 3:53:32 PM] Boss: only sexier
[8/10/2009 3:54:13 PM] Christian(Bauer): Heh, interesting. We should totally have a LPI model with flashing blue/red lights.
[8/10/2009 3:57:30 PM] Marcel (MB52): yes I agree

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[10:10:28 AM] Josh (Dejavu): Bauer is legendary to the LPI, I joined because I wanted to be that epic.

[Cameron]

Hussar, switchblade and Hyina look a bit fat, not liking that too much. All the others look pretty good though, keep at it.

With the Rheinland ships, i think the new ones should get a newer looking texture like the one on the "Bergelmir". Their current one looks a bit old and worn.

[JovialKnight]

Hussar, switchblade and Hyina look a bit fat, not liking that too much. All the others look pretty good though, keep at it.

With the Rheinland ships, i think the new ones should get a newer looking texture like the one on the "Bergelmir". Their current one looks a bit old and worn.

The hussar looks to be sizes with the paladin, can we get a comparison shot?

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[elgeeko]

Ok first I already said after the first comments on it that I would look into the switchblades problem.

As a technicality you might be interested to know that its no fatter at any point than the original Switchblade, however because the neck on the lower part got shorter and because of the way the wings meet the body now, it gives it a chunkier feel due to *proportion* not because it was actually made 'fatter'

Again, Im working on that. Don't chew me up and spit me out just because one prototype needs a major tweak.;)

Now the Hyena

It is exactly the same beam (width) as the original at its widest point. I provided a dorsal fixed-perspective shot to show this.
Thats in-fact why I provide fixed-projection shots like that. MS-3D has a stilted perspective in ortho view compounded slightly by the new ship being the closer one (for details sake) so the other views are to help you get a feel for the true shape.

Now that thats out of the way;
Nighthawk you are right I am a rookie modeler. I am not Tenacity and I do not labor under the delusion that my work is nearly as amazing as that produced by some of the other modelers in this community.

However, that does not mean that the work I am doing is below the standard for a good addition to the mod.

Yes, the modifications I am making to these models are subtle. But they are *not* simple.
It takes alot of thought and careful work (hours) to do these subtle changes in a way that holds to the Vanilla line's atmosphere and still conveys just the right sense of change.

Yes I just did 8 or so in two days, but only because from 9AM to 10PM both days was spent on MS-3D with stops taken only for meals and the men's room.

(I can not, nor will I try, to keep up that kind of schedule everyday mind you)

Lets be clear on something from the get-go; I never ever ever simply 'squish' or 'resize' a model.
I never even select the whole model at once, I do things the hard way. Vertex by tiny, confusing, slippery vertex.
(though usually in pairs with its partner for symmetry)

If I just 'squished' it, then tell me how the outer panels got added to the forward ramscoops?
How did the rear fins rotate, move, and change position to add extra protection to the engines while streamlining the shape?
How did the engines get larger length-wise for added power but the body not change?
And how did the cockpit's shape change to accomodate new avionics?

I never do something that is 'a 10 second fix'
(even the Wraiths wing's took about 25 minutes to get the angle *just* so like the trailer)
And I also always have an 'in-game-world' design reason for every change I make to these craft.

You are entitled to the opinion that the Vanilla ships are better, you are entitled to want them and not my MK-II's
You are entitled to provide intelligent, constructive critique and suggestions, and to vote in the poll.

But despite my rookiness, I would ask that you not disrespect my hard-working attempts to make something for this community, and that you would also refrain from disprespecting me as a modeler (greenhorn though I may be)

Some (most) of these changes are indeed small and subtle, but thats the point. "Size matters not" no matter how subtle the work is, it takes a great deal of thought and work to keep the same quality and atmosphere of the Vanilla model I am working with.

Just because I am not yet conjuring totally from scratch models does not mean my work would be any less useful to the mod.
Indeed even if I could work from scratch I wouldn't as the entire Idea is to base the MK-II's off the MK-I's

I've seen far too many new ship lines or extensions of ship lines in other mods that looked ugly as sin because they tried too hard not to emulate the Vanilla models.

In closing;
Neither disrespect for my modifications, nor the opinions of a minority, will keep me from submitting these.
The decision is up to the poll, so discussion and debate over whether or not this project should go forward is *closed* again. Have an opinion about the project as a whole? vote please.

Otherwise save the space for constructive and useful critique of the ships so I can refine the prototypes that need refining (Switchblade etc) and eventually get moving with the rest when the poll is over.

In short; Respect the work I am doing. People are entitled to their opinions, but I am entitled to respect as I am the one burning hours and energy to do this. Not only that but I am making the work public and open to suggestions and critique thereby opening myself for potentially hours more work to satisfy someones request about a model, or to fix an overall flaw in one of the prototypes. So please respect the fact that I am doing the extra work to include everyones input.
(I now have a whole entire Rheinland model that took close to 2 hours of tossed out ideas and changes and careful manipulation to make because I was willing to compromise to Johann's request)

Now if youll excuse me, the Switchblade is getting some proportion surgery, and I need to compile a Hussar/Paladin comp-chart.

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[dr lameos]

The poll isn't votable, because there isn't a NO option. The options currently are:
"Change some of the Mk II models"
or
"Change all of the Mk II models"

I have to say though, on the majority I like some of the kitbashes you've done here, however for the reasons I stated earlier I'm still against them replacing the vanilla mk II models. I want the vanilla aspect to be kept and expanded upon, not marginalised.

Also, by modifying these ships, you'd also be disrupting the hitboxes, thus making them unbalanced. Also, that switchblade is damn ugly.

I can see the reasoning behind this, it's not that its a terrible idea or terrible models... it's just not the direction I'd want disco to go in. If you can replace the homeworld ships though, I'd be all for it.

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[elgeeko]

Well however this turns out, when its over I would sure enjoy helping rid the world of an import line.:)so we shall see...

Hitboxes are not one of the areas I have learned much about yet, but its my understanding (correct me if its flawed) that after submission the developers who test new models will inform you if the shape unbalances it somehow. In which case revisions/adaptations can be made.

Most of these will fit to the hitbox of their MK-I, or with a few small changes. I am trying to make them all fit more or less within the same bounding-box as their MK-I (with the Griffin and Wraith being major exceptions)

Anyways, while looking into the switchblade I discovered the problem;
The switchblade has an extra-long nose. It took a direct comparison (I placed one ship on-top of the other) to figure it out.

so I lengthened the nose and the lower 'neck' again and I think it helps;
You guys agree? (I did this comp shot by taking a directly focused shot of each ship separately at similar angle and zoom. Its not perfect or exact but it might help prevent the stilted perspective mess-up)



Also, don't know why anyone wants it but someone asked for a Paladin/New Hussar comparison so here it is;
(The long and short of it; Hussar is longer and thinner but of similar height)



http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss293/f...ncompdorsal.png

Anyhow, now for the next week I have other things to do.
The Slavers Union needs a finished Vulture, I need to do pass 2 on all currently done models, and if I get bored I might do some Liberator concept work.

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