This Weeks Hypothetical Scenario

[pbrione]

In my view the best way to do this and avoid most of the problems cited above would be to create a self-stabalising price system whereby every commodity has a set price that it naturally shifts back towards over time if nobody is buying / selling it. This would represent the npc traders balancing out the effects of the players so that no price ever fell too low or rose too high for prolongued periods. As for how large these balancing effectes would be, that could easily be adjusted.

Generally an interesting idea, but needs careful thought and some pretty complex maths to calculate how to set all the parameters to prevent crazy outcomes. I'll leave that to someone more qualified than myself...

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Sir Stanley Nelson




<span style="color:#000066">Charles Canning </span><span style="color:#000066"> Foreign Secretary</span>

[Friday]

The stabilized price would of course - be the Discovery default value...

If data could be exported to a spreadsheet program it would make the job a lot simpler, and easier to monitor.

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[Cyberanson]

Indeed. Auto-stabilizing prices would solve many problems. But it should be made sure, that you can stop certain commodities to stabilize with some command, to prevent unwanted changes during special events.

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[Agran Harper]

I thought about something similar like autobalancing prices again. So, prices must ONLY shift due to player actions, when doing too much of a trading and then autobalance again OVER TIME after a certain trade route has been unused for a set amount of time. There should be no remote base skyrocketing with oxygen and water EVER. That simply doesn't make any sense.
Also, if traders BRING stock to the base and SELL it there, the prices should rebalance faster, naturally.

Yet since its an outsorced database, I have no idea how it will affect server performance. Still, I would go so far to say, that after repeated (ab)use of certain trade routes, not only should the prices shift accordingly, but the stations selling would simply have nothing in stock anymore after a certain number of units are bought, and the stations buying should not buy them anymore due to the already vast amount in stocks. E.g: all storages are full. Server reset makes the stock "appear" again. That, or (which takes even more resources), a certain number of units per hour(?) is created to visualize the delivered goods of incoming NPC transports.

If it is possible to create a database that automatically shifts prices, then it is certainly within the limits to completely remove the buy/sell orders from the overused commodities on some stations, since both requires the automatical editing of ini files. Aso, this procedure would only be valid, since there is no such thing as indefinite stock.

The idea about the special trade licences, or even licences that allow ONLY some commodities could also be considered. I also look favorably upon the trade ID to get more profits out of lesser used trade routes to ensure diversity, still I do not know if that is possible to alter commodities depending on mounted IDs.

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To hunt the prey is life,
to lose the prey is death,
to hunt the loss is insane...

[Fletcher]

I'm not saying that every shipment lowers the price, I'm saying overtime like once a week the prices alter a bit, meaning this is a very long term thing. So we can't severely imbalance the trading. At least, that is the version in my head.

How much it alters would depend on the amount shipped in a week or so.

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"Oh chuffing blimey, another day, another person being whiney!"
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[Darkard]

Ok, Dynamic pricing is good. But open to falling over if certain Comoditys are Spammed in either Import or Export.
We can never have a 100% true to like economy, Its just not possible to have and not cripple traders/miners. Setting hard limits on stock levels will mean a team of miner can 'Fill' a base and then everyone else in that area is forced to haul it out. If there are no Miners then the Hauler are forced into mining when Stocks run dry. This cannot be allowed to happen.
BUT with a combination of set Upper and Lower price limits as well as a self-correcting unit costs could possibly work.

Ill Use a compleatly made up example here.
In System A you can haul Copper to the base there. Everytime a cargo haul of copper is dropped onto the base it tweaks the price in that base down (To show they need less of it).
Eventually the price of Copper will hit the Low limit for that price (it cannot drop any lower than this price so that there is always SOME profit to bringing it here, just not much i.e. it will never sell for less than a trader can buy it from its production point. This also means that its never profitable to take Copper FROM the base to a production point.).
With a little time the price of Copper at the base will come back up to simulate it being used and thus it become more profitable to take it there again.
The base in System A produces Engine Components from the copper. These can be sold at System B.
Buying the Engine Components at System A would drive its price up until it reaches the Upper Limit. (This is never higher than System B's Lower limit. So again, there is always SOME profit to hauling it. You will never arrive to find you are making a loss.)

This would continue on from base to base idealy making a loop where you take an Import good in and an Export out to each base in the chain, Just like the current Fixed economy trys to simulate.
The fluctuating prices are to make traders have 3/4 good routes that they can switch betwwen when they find thier profit on one loop getting slim. This would stop A <-> B routes as they would quickly hit thier limits and slash profits. And would ecourace longer routes through many bases, and also would not cause one route to have hundreds of traders while another has none, as people would move to less used routes.

To help with traders finding how much a route is being used. Have a permanant Bar News item in the major trade hubs that informs on price levels and how much stock is being moved to and from bases that are part of that Bases Trade Loop.

I hope I made that clear to people.

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[Agran Harper]

I think we should draw the line of what is possible, and what is not;

Stressing the server with realtime calculated values in every base, and crosscalculating to the other bases that sell/buy the same commodity within uncircular waves will absolutely drive the ping, the lagg, the latency and every single network packet nuts. Apart from that, I can only repeat what I said above; the economy must never, ever be solely player driven. So I'm more with Fletchers approach. Slow and steady wins the race.

I could think of the following approach that could meet all ends;

• Game logs are determining which commodities have been bought and sold while the server was up for the day. At shutdown, a database takes over and analyzes the data, giving the amount of which commodity prices should slightly change from the bought / sold stuff at which systems. I take only the stations were actually there was something bought/sold and not the other ones. Think of it as; "The grocery doesn't have the meat I want... so I visit the next one."
  Database checks for altered commodity prices and how much units have been moved from that; if a route that has been edited was not used to that extend, autorebalancing takes place.
  

Still, I really would like to see a maximum storage capacity for commodities. The base in the example that buys copper does not have infinite storage capabilities and will say sooner or later "We're full... we cannot take what you have to offer". The same as any production facility will say sooner or later "we have no units left to sell, please come back later". Though I do not have any idea if that is actually possible.

The bar News that changes when the prices change (or rather, it reflects the actual prices when the visitor looks at the news) is a very cool idea, and is in possible in simplified mode (see my listed example). It would be just another file to automatically update when the server is shut down.
Though I have no idea if it is possible to alter the scrolled text, as it is based off the station prices you are currently docked at. I'd rather make a fixed text News Item with the title "Current System commodity price changes".

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To hunt the prey is life,
to lose the prey is death,
to hunt the loss is insane...

[Albert]

In this scenario, a live economy system is drawn up and implemented into the Discovery economy model.

Meaning the more one thing is traded, the prices for it alter depending on supply and demand. If a lot of people lets say traded a lot of Engine Components from The Ring, that would cause prices for that at its source to go up up to high demand, and in my mind, its raw components prices will begin to rise at that sell point. Meaning The Ring will want a lot more raw materials to create Engine Components, requiring more people to ship the raw materials to stabilize the rise in price to the Engine Components since there will be more supply, in theory.

Meaning, there will be a larger need for people to slow down, or stop shipping products, exotic items, and ship raw materials. This could also apply for consumer goods and oxygen in far flung bases, that over time require these necessities to keep functioning and produce items. This will mean true Zoner trade routes and true Planetform RP trading the necessities, not the luxuries. Oxygen and water are vital to survival, yet I've never ever seen one shipping them. Why? Not enough profit for funding.

The amount that the prices rise and fall, is all up to the raw material and energy foundation, then the needs of the production centres, and the needs of the end source. This is kind of a simple economic model in my mind, and could be wrong.

But this economy, while would take a lot of work and updating I expect, would either kill or strangle power traders, and encourage RP correct, and even NPC trade routes to be taken by players. Stimulating player growth in trading factions, and the escort business, and give the Zoners a far more logical role in trade routes as is the knife in their reputation these days. Not to mention, I think pirates could use some variety than the normal stomping grounds day in, day out.

Now, since I tried to explain the Dynamic Economy model I have in my, and possibly others minds. How would you take it, or perceive the changes in the game with its implementation?

I like. It has been done sucsessfully elsewhere, and would force traders and pirates out of their "comfort zones".

My only concern is that Disco is such a stable mod, if a dynamic economy mucked that up at all, forget it.

Ok I didnt read the string, but it wont work.

First poster:
We are not a functioning self-upholding community. We are a bunch of egomaniac nerds using our parents money to play on the internet. We would die on our own. Even less build a functioning economy.

Second poster:
Same as first... stop trying to make us functionall. Wont happen. This is not a civilization that works for its own good. This is a computer game called Discovery. Want a working society? Get back in RL.

[dead_shot]

Mining will die with introduction of the dynamic economy!

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the path to hell is paved with good intentions!

[Darkard]

Stressing the server with realtime calculated values in every base, and crosscalculating to the other bases that sell/buy the same commodity within uncircular waves will absolutely drive the ping, the lagg, the latency and every single network packet nuts.

I wasent Suggesting that it calculates depending on the current prices in other bases. What I meant was that the high limit would never be higher than the low limit at its sell point. These would be hard set numbers and not ones that change. Only the price would change when bought/sold.

For example If copper's upper limit was 200 Credits. Then its price at the sell point would never fall below around 220 Credits. So that even if the route is spammed you would make 20 credits per unit minumum. If the Route is underused and the limits not reached you would make a bigger profit per item.

Regarding the "We are Full.. come back later" This will lead to people buying 5k of Copper and then getting to the sell point and not being able to sell it. This cannot happen as it will just piss people off and drive them away. At least with highly deminished profits people will sell thier Copper (Grudingly, for a small profit) and then check out the bar for a better route from that base or one close by.

*Edit* "We are Full" would totaly destroy mining by the way.

@dead_shot: Only Solo Miners. Mining teams could Haul away meaning they would still make money. And I belive that Mining was balenced to be a TEAMWORK money maker, rather than Traders being the Solo Moneymaker.
A miner would drive comod prices down at his sell point. A Hauler (not even in his Group) could take them from the base at the lowered price due to the miners 'fulling' The haulers would drag the price up again so that the Miner still makes decent money.
Also seeing as mining is a No Cost pickup on commod, he would still get at least the Lower Limit of the comod price at 100% profit.
Would have the ffect that if there is a miner active at a base, traders will come to that base to take advantage of the stabalised price due to the miners influx of comods.

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