Bretonian Dreadnought Development Thread

[Linkus]

maybe it should be discussed if we need a heavy bretonian battleship

The deficiencies of the Bretonian Battleship in a Battleship's primary role, that is, killing other Battleships, is sorely demonstrated in combat against the Kusari Shankopotamus. Multiple people have contacted me over the last six or seven months and asked for something bigger

Model it and lets see the result.

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Facilitating the rise of robotics since 0 A.D.

[Red_Bull]

It's a really nice model and can seriously have some good potential. I would really love to see this thing in game, and I couldn't see the scaling at the bottom of the picture clearly. How big is it supposed to be comparing to the Kusari BS?

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[Eppy]

Model it and lets see the result.

I hate to be blunt, mate, but that's a LOT of work to do for you to decide if you like it or not. Big, complex, texture-heavy ships - especially Bretonian ships - need to be planned on and decided on before they go into production, because once that model goes up and I've got it all nice and detailed and somebody decides they want something changed, I am going to be very, very unamused. The unusually detailed pictorial was provided for such a reason (although apparently I didn't detail the bow enough, of all things).

As for the matter of that bow, yes, it was very specifically designed to emulate a mouth, keeping in line with the Bretonian Giant Sea Monster bit. Think of a giant grinning whale. With big, sharp teeth.

As for the tail, well, it's supposed to look kind of weird, but I think it's very Bretonian. I originally stumbled on that when I was doing the first Bretonian Dreadnought; I figured the rear looked kind of odd and I needed something that would hold more than one Bretonian Battleship engine, so I devised something similar to that. They're like fish fins arranged into a sort of three-dimensional shark's tail, with two or three engines assembled under its folds, and two more partially underneath it attached to those little Bretonian fishlegs. Giant Fish + General Tail Shape Like Current Battleship + Bretonian textures and ridges = Profit!

As for whether or not the Bretonians need a heavy Dreadnought, I would say it's certainly a natural thing for them to do, because:



As you can see, while the Shankopotamus is obviously larger than the Crustacean, it's not any wider, which gives it a surprising agility in a joust. Head on, (which, as Jinx so wisely reminds us, is the most important perspective) the Shankopotamus is a good a dodger as the Bretonian Battleship, whilst being able to withstand way, way, way more damage than the Bretonian BS (1280000 base armor to the BretBS's 800000, and 2000 b/b to its 1600) and dish out WAY more damage (18 guns as opposed to 14, only ten/eleven of which fire forward), gives it the power to shred the Bretonian BS on the initial run - what happens past then is irrelevant because the Bretonian BS has already lost so much hull that it can't hope to drop the Kusari BS even if it can outfly it. It makes sense to me that the Bretonians would then come out with something even bigger and nastier, with so much armor and firepower it can beat the Kusari BS at its own game, something nearing on Zoner Juggernaut scale. It's just filling a deficiency in their lineup - if something big and nasty crawls out of the woodwork it's good to have something that's even bigger and nastier handy.

EDIT: Also, the opinion of the BAF is going to be valued much, much more highly than anybody else's. Their members asked for it, the intended customer should get the most say. Just saying.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[Jinx]

if you aim for something the size of the juggernaut, - you d have a ship twice the size of a kusari battleship ( roughly ) - and even the juggernaut only has 16 turrets! - and only a few of them can fire rear / sideways / up and down - which is a weakspot for a ship of that size.

aside from concerns of balance - and that kusari will scream for a smaller sized medium powercore battleship then, i guess. - can bretonia actually afford a new vessel in the limitations of its roleplay that is.

one of their main raw material processing facilities is gone - and not only destroyed but taken over by the enemy - also partly cutting the mining field off ( LD-14 )

i d rather see bretonia build refugee transports and colonization ships than superheavy dreadnoughts.

but THAT would be a discussion other than the pure model discussion. - i cannot deny that i am opposed to the idea of a bretonian heavy dreadnought - as i am opposed to the idea of a very fast rheinland battleship or actually - a kusari light battleship.

for me - its a ship that is not needed ... at least not in playerhands.

if such a ship was richly detailed and put into the game as a BASE - a bridgehead to which BAF forces can retreat to ... with if you like ... 18 turrets. - fine by me. a playable version is something i m not convinced about yet.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Eppy]

if you aim for something the size of the juggernaut, - you d have a ship twice the size of a kusari battleship ( roughly ) - and even the juggernaut only has 16 turrets! - and only a few of them can fire rear / sideways / up and down - which is a weakspot for a ship of that size.

aside from concerns of balance - and that kusari will scream for a smaller sized medium powercore battleship then, i guess. - can bretonia actually afford a new vessel in the limitations of its roleplay that is.

one of their main raw material processing facilities is gone - and not only destroyed but taken over by the enemy - also partly cutting the mining field off ( LD-14 )

then there is an even nastier enemy right at its doorstep. ( which is not yet of any concern ... but even so )

i d rather see bretonia build refugee transports and colonization ships than superheavy dreadnoughts.

but THAT would be a discussion other than the pure model discussion. - i cannot deny that i am opposed to the idea of a bretonian heavy dreadnought - as i am opposed to the idea of a very fast rheinland battleship or actually - a kusari light battleship.

for me - its a ship that is not needed ... at least not in playerhands.

if such a ship was richly detailed and put into the game as a BASE - a bridgehead to which BAF forces can retreat to ... with if you like ... 18 turrets. - fine by me. a playable version is something i m not convinced about yet.

I intend this for something of a flagship role - a base for the BAF guard system if they want it and another Kusari Royal Yachtish thing for the Bretonians, but huge. It'd probably be Special RP Request (like a lot of ships should be). Also, I probably should have clarified when I mentioned it being the size of the Juggernaut - I meant that it would approach the size of the Juggernaut up from the Kusari Battleship; something about halfway in between. Still a warship, just a really BIG one, not a full-sized colony ship. More along the lines of the Rheinland Battleship, in fact.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[Unseelie]

Jinx...the kusari are getting, or at least gurj has modeled, a bc sized about the same as the Bret BB. Why can the brets not have a Dread sized like the Kusari BB?

I would, though, really like to see more transports modeled. there's a hole between the 5ks and the house standards, where a 7-9 gun ship could really fit. Something a little bit lighter than a ctrans, but heavier than the 5k, with cargospace at about 4.5k

After that, there needs to be passenger vessels that -aren't- either luxury or prisoner transport.

And then each house at least deserves a ship with about 3k cargo, around 9 guns, and a cd, to counter the ptrans in a policing role.

Also, if anyone's considered a ship for bret to be a space city colony ship thing, much like the juggy, as jinx has suggested (I really like the idea of replacing the shetland (and the hawaii, but thats offtopic) over gaia with a unique ship that -doesn't- travel through space...
Consider this as a concept:

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[frozen]

this design is better suited as a highly detailed monstrosity of a base, not as a super heavy dreadnought for players to fly. further more, as jinx pointed out, within RP, how do you justify bretonia having and manufacturing such ships to combat kusari? they have enough trouble from the kusarians, corsairs, and as jinx said, soon to be another enemy.

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[Andrew_Bonesovich]

Bretonia cant afford a new battleship? Wait, how many factions got a ship even when they shouldnt be able to afford it?

Gaian gunship? Wait, little group of hippies that dont even have fighters of their own get a gunship...?

Zoners having huge capital ships? What for?

Many pirate or other groups got a capital ship for no reason. Bretonia didnt get any new military ship for ages (except the Paladin, which is more of a BPA ship until it gets some serious revision again)

Liberty has ton of new ships, Kusari will probably get a BC (which they dont really need since the Ku BS can actually rape Bret BS horribly atm), Rheinland has SHF and Superbomber.

I dont know but seems like a lot of people have something against Bretonia, justificating everything by "lol ur getting pwned".

Also, I would like to know what enemy is on our doorstep. We are already fighting with almost everything around us, how is that even possible?

Maybe the Zoners? :lol:

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A criminal always returns to the crime scene.

[Eppy]

Justifying isn't my job, I'm just the guy who makes the thing. However, I would say that, judging by the number of caps the Outcasts and Corsairs have alone that the Bretonians, even in a reduced capacity, could afford to field a new class if they thought it would be a better use of their resources than just producing more of their current models.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[Linkus]

Why would Bretonia produce 2 Battleships that could be torn up independently when they can produce 1 Superbattleship that can tear up everything else independently?

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Facilitating the rise of robotics since 0 A.D.