bombers (discussion only)

[NonSequitor]

I think that this old chestnut of a problem is due to a few factors:

1) Fear that the lolwutters in their capships will wreak chaos on everyone's roleplay. The bombers are considered to be one of the best de facto counters to poor rp. See a lolwutter - take him out with 3 bombers. All done. If we "nerf" the bombers, we lose our roleplay police.

2) Many dedicated bomber pilots know they have a good thing going and are not going to buy into any idea of making their primary ship more specialized.

3) Scornstar's axiom (his observation, not his personal opinion): Smaller ship = greater rp value; Larger ship = lesser rp value. This attitude is alive and well on this server. Inevitably, some 14-year old will question your rp and pvp skills in system chat, because you happen to be in a capship - "Wut a noob! needs a BS to fite 4 bomburs!", all the while lobbing SNACs at your ship. A ship that happens to be 100 times larger than his. It seems to me that bomber pilot in this case (not all bomber pilots are like this) puts more value in pvp-skills than in rp-skills.

This is a symptom of a larger problem: lack of respect for one another as players. In reality, good rp quality is not determined by the ship class, but by how the ship is used in different situations. I've seen engaging rp from miners and craptacular rp from fighters.

Those of us who primarily fly capships got a mixed bag with the new mod. Some things were improved, other things got nerfed three ways to Sunday. As a result, capships lost a lot of flexibility in order to balance out overall gameplay. In line with much of what Eternal had to say on the matter, I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask bomber pilots for some sacrifices. Bombers should be primarily bombers - capship killers. Fighters should be efficient at killing bombers. And bombers would actually need escorts to keep enemy fighters off of them.

[ophidian]

I agree with what you say Megiddo.

I am a battleship owner and I accept how 3 bombers can rip my hull apart, it IS why they are called bombers.

But bombers are also invincible to VHFs and even Gunboats. This is a problem. RP police craft becoming RP killers themselves. I mean, we get 3 capital ships with 10 escorts out to have a fleet RP and 5 bombers can rip all apart. This doesnt fit to rp, its like using the BFG9000 of the old Doom games against a single marine.

---

[Cosmos]

If the pilot takes the time to improve his skill in a bomber and too improve his SNAC aiming capability.

Then he has every right to be better than any of the fools that joust him in a fighter.

Any fighter pilots that say:
"Hey how comes that bomber killed me within Two seconds?"

The simple answer is: You are not good enough with that ship, Learn too dodge, learn too strafe and get behind your enemy.

Never...Ever confront and Joust a bomber pilot in a fighter.

---

[22:50:33] ☆ҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳEternal†Nightmareҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳ☆(illi): i cyber with leather torps (smoking)

[Eppy]

And when you stay behind the bomber and he doesn't die...?

---

Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[X-Lancer]

I think it would be useful if we knew how long it takes for two light bombers to kill a, say, light battleship with marginal armor.

Just so we have an understanding.

Please provide us with the amount of time necessary for two civilian bombers to destroy a cap 4 Osiris.

In this scenario the Osiris is not dodging, nor returning fire. The two civilian bombers are firing at every opportunity provided by their plant.

just so all of you know
in BHG vs Order event

we use 2~4 bomber, all survived after their cap 8 mako blown up, while enemy have at least 6 fighters, same for enemy, our Osiris got blown up, while at least twice the number of fighters we have compare to their bombers, and their bomber and fighters took out our bomber and fighters at the end (damn, BHG bomber is just a bomber power core with fighter aglity and size).

so, twice the number of fighter we had did not really effect on the bomber defence ability on our capital ship, our fighter were trying as hard as possible to concentrate fire, preventing bomber make their SNAC run on our caps, but still, fighter weapons are 99% missed and 1% hit and it doesnt deal enough damage when it hits on bomber.

(ALL average fighter pilot SHOULD take down a skilled bomber without a big problem, just like ALL average bomber can take down a skilled battleship problem without a big problem.)

[Colonel Z.e.r.o.]

I think that this old chestnut of a problem is due to a few factors:

1) Fear that the lolwutters in their capships will wreak chaos on everyone's roleplay. The bombers are considered to be one of the best de facto counters to poor rp. See a lolwutter - take him out with 3 bombers. All done. If we "nerf" the bombers, we lose our roleplay police.

I do believe that a least a fraction of bomber pilots today are a result of being fed up with the overuse of capship by "lolwutters".

2) Many dedicated bomber pilots know they have a good thing going and are not going to buy into any idea of making their primary ship more specialized.

But of course, with that SNAC they can effectively down any shieldless fighter or bomber in the mod. A BH bomber was able to take dual mini razor shots and still have a bar of health left (granted he had Armor VIII equipped.) Not only that, they can also out run any capitalship engaging it currently (shield running) and come back again, fire (at an even greater distance than 4.84), once the shield is low enough, steadily fire off class 10 shieled/hullbusters (while being careful not to put too much strain on their recharging efforts) the pop another one away at the hull. Rise, repeat.

3) Scornstar's axiom (his observation, not his personal opinion): Smaller ship = greater rp value; Larger ship = lesser rp value. This attitude is alive and well on this server. Inevitably, some 14-year old will question your rp and pvp skills in system chat, because you happen to be in a capship - "Wut a noob! needs a BS to fite 4 bomburs!", all the while lobbing SNACs at your ship. A ship that happens to be 100 times larger than his. It seems to me that bomber pilot in this case (not all bomber pilots are like this) puts more value in pvp-skills than in rp-skills.

This is a symptom of a larger problem: lack of respect for one another as players. In reality, good rp quality is not determined by the ship class, but by how the ship is used in different situations. I've seen engaging rp from miners and craptacular rp from fighters.

People are so accustomed to the likelyhood of a battleship pilot being just some silent power trader with little to no regards for the RP customs of this server. They've almost completely shut off their ears and minds to the possibility of that battleship pilot having some will to RP more than simply "engagin", unless, of course, they have a faction tag, a 30 page RP story, and 800 posts on the forums.

Those of us who primarily fly capships got a mixed bag with the new mod. Some things were improved, other things got nerfed three ways to Sunday. As a result, capships lost a lot of flexibility in order to balance out overall gameplay. In line with much of what Eternal had to say on the matter, I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask bomber pilots for some sacrifices. Bombers should be primarily bombers - capship killers. Fighters should be efficient at killing bombers. And bombers would actually need escorts to keep enemy fighters off of them.

Very true, the prime reason, Bounty hunter capships were restricted to the Omicrons was because all the hate the 4.84 Battlecruiser got from....everyone. Even enemy cruisers were no match for it, so in response the were restricted to edgeworld space, in they rival's ship (namely the Geb) easily over powered it, and it's user base completely ignored by all, not matter how reasonable their proposal was. Basically, because of the mistakes of the past (namely the fault of the lolwutting bhg BC, all capship users were made to suffer to some degree, whether it be ID changes, or nerfs/buffs, it is saf to say many of them were on account of the complaint about the lolwutters

If the pilot takes the time to improve his skill in a bomber and too improve his SNAC aiming capability.

Then he has every right to be better than any of the fools that joust him in a fighter.

Any fighter pilots that say:
"Hey how comes that bomber killed me within Two seconds?"

The simple answer is: You are not good enough with that ship, Learn too dodge, learn too strafe and get behind your enemy.

Never...Ever confront and Joust a bomber pilot in a fighter.

Yeah it's perfectly RP to exploit game mechanics in order to kill a fighter with the prime anti capitalship in the mod.

By the way, that's kinda the main reason I supported Obama in the November elections. He proposed a military training program that would allow submarine crews to effectively down supersonic fighters with torpedoes.

---

Nathan's Log || The "Real Story" of Lenox Casper

[X-Lancer]

Seems to be what The MR was made for, Pwning bombers

that takes skill, and not everyone can do that, but using bomber to simply rape a cap doesnt take much effort.

[X-Lancer]

If the pilot takes the time to improve his skill in a bomber and too improve his SNAC aiming capability.

Then he has every right to be better than any of the fools that joust him in a fighter.

Any fighter pilots that say:
"Hey how comes that bomber killed me within Two seconds?"

The simple answer is: You are not good enough with that ship, Learn too dodge, learn too strafe and get behind your enemy.

Never...Ever confront and Joust a bomber pilot in a fighter.

yes, but you cant kill a light bomber without jousting (it takes hours, or maybe even you didnt kill him at all).

Bomber has just about as much aglity as your VHF has, what are you gonna do? your gun hardly touch them due to their size and fighter class strafing ability, your gun touches them and doesnt hurt enough.

and according to your logic, every good battleship captain should totally rape bombers, yes? (like in 4.84, you have skill and strategy on aiming bombers, you shoot them down like flies, then bomber pilot starts whining.)

[ophidian]

If the pilot takes the time to improve his skill in a bomber and too improve his SNAC aiming capability.

Then he has every right to be better than any of the fools that joust him in a fighter.

Any fighter pilots that say:
"Hey how comes that bomber killed me within Two seconds?"

The simple answer is: You are not good enough with that ship, Learn too dodge, learn too strafe and get behind your enemy.

Never...Ever confront and Joust a bomber pilot in a fighter.

Flaming is a bad thing but this is probably one of the worst attitudes that can be held to correct and improve anything.

I am a Keeper and when we go frenzy, we go to a killing spree of 60 or so ships in a row. We do this with good tactics and talent and coordination. BUT piloting skills and ship inequalities are two different things.

We are talking about making the balance more understandable. Sorry that it is an idea that may cause certain people to lose their so beloved blue text messages but if it is to improve the overall gameplay, "learn to love the red text messages about respawning" is a better way.

I have a Sekhmet, a Keeper bomber, a civilian bomber and several other craft that I have experience with. Sekhmet is a brick, and it feels like how a real bomber should be. Remember the Tie fighter games? Tie Bombers being dull but being able to deliver massive payloads? If you pass the fighter shield, cap ship is dead.

Its how it should be. Else, lets all have bombers and fly around. I am sure that it would be amusing to see the overall improvement that pilots had about their "snac aiming".

---

[Pinko]

Anyone remembers the Starlancer Coalition bomber?

4 Torpedo slots. No guns. The ability to cloak ( D= ). Slow, nearly unable to turn.

THAT was a bomber!

---

I want to get off Mr. Igiss' wild ride.