Capital Ship Missiles

[Craines]

So you want to nerf my precious [KND]_deLuna?

Blast you, Dab!

*Echoes* Blast you to somewhere that is currently not in the area that you are in the event that you are going to be blasted due to my currrrsssssseeeeeee!

After that dramatic yell, I don't know how I can manage to speak! Oh, wait, now I remember. Text can't be horse. Heh.

Anywho! The added pun of 'blast you' was not intentional, but now that I read it, I find myself loving it even more.

And for you who don't like missile spamming? What about that laser spamming! What's up with that!

*Paid for by the Council to have Lasers Require Ammo. 'They kill my hull too easily'!*

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[caylith]

Kane...I agree with you on missiles being deadly. They should be deadly! For the slow and lumbering cruisers and battleships, they need something to fight off the agile fighters. But........the Gunboat........they are very, very agile. I *am* a good pilot (at least I think so:P) I know how to dodge...i've gone up against capital ships by myself. I don't expect to survive an lone encounter with a battleship (If I fly with the Phantoms, then i'd have a chance, hehe). I do, however, expect a good fight with a gunboat. But it's not like that any longer.

Like I said before, I carry a full load of countermeasures. When I have 5 missiles coming at me every couple of seconds....I run out of CM's very, very quickly.

Make the missiles ammunition based, not energy! They'll use them more precisely and sparingly. The missile spamming, per se, will go out i'mthe window real quick.

[Craines]

But then missile turrets wouldn't need to be missile turrets any longer - we could just have gun emplacements on the cap ships (BSes not included) and missiles could be optional; however, any missile fired would be from the gun, not turret, position, and therefore would require ammo.

Can a turret be modded to use ammo?

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[Qunitinius~Verginix]

If Capital ships go high then 500million credits, then I will leave. I am not wasting my life to trade and get a damn BS or something. Kane has a point, but Dab does a really good job of counteracting it. A battleships missles are not meant to kill the fighter. They are meant to hold it off while the fighters come in.

Now people, I really want you to know this. You can kill a fighter without using missles in a GB. I can say with confidence that I have won about 90% of Gunboat vs fighter pvps without missiles. If You look at my first post, I can also say, that this is what would be the msot logical thing for us to do, it would limit this ruining of PvP, and it would make gunbaots a little more even.

Also, for the people who say, OMFG a GB can kill everything! A gunboat on its own vs a cruiser, can't do sh!t. I know from experiance that if a cruiser that can focus its fire on a GB will destroy it. Tiger Claw has killed {Helghast}~Ferdimond a few times in one-vs-one encounters and so has my AEGIS ship, and this is in a LIBERTY cruiser with basic guns and with out hitting with its forward cannon. Gunboats are meant for going on patrols and killing fighters and they need a crap laod of support to kill anything bigger then themselfs. Oso, remember the fight we had in texas? Ferdi, Domingo.lopez and Olsav vs you and a fighter? That is how a GB should work and it is how they work now.

In conclusion, GB's DONT need nerfing. A few simple rules can put an end to this.

Verginix Out

EDIT, Three posts got posted in the time it took em to write this, so:

YES! Missle turrets need AMMO! THAT IS WHAT WE NEED.

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[Kane]

Ammo requirements seems to be an answer. Possibly -the- answer. Can we all agree to add ammunition requirements to capital-class missiles instead of energy? Yes? Good!

Igiss, since the Swarm worked on a similar principle, I'm assuming it wouldn't be terribly hard to re-work those turrets. If we could work on that, and perhaps at least consider the two options of missiles, that would be great.

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This is the real true story of rock and roll; it was not about anything more then, how to live your life, as a gangster, in sartorial splendor, and turning the world into a place where normality would never return again...- Malcolm McLaren

[Panzer]

Ammo on large ship missles? Well, might be a good idea. But I believe, the reason, why most players don't use missles on fighters is the fact, that they require ammo. Very expensive in some cases. I myself, on my batlestar use 2 missle turrets against NPC fighters. Don't need more, because in PvP my opponenets are mostly capships. And hunting nomads would take much more time, if I couldn't eliminate their durable fighters quickly and effectively. If the usage of these weapnos is a problem as it seems to be (yes, I've seen some using only infernos and missle turets), I would keep those missles' stats (or even slightly impove their turn rate), but restrict the maximum number, which could be mounted on a ship. I wouldn't make them ammo-hungry, because the cost would be just too great, if proportional to the current firepower/cost policy. It is already expensive to maintan two cannonballs on a fighter. What would it be if it was 4 battleship turrets? Such ammo would get depleted shortly too, since the max capacity is 70missles/ship. divided by 4 gives 17,5 salvos. It would effectively restrain from missle spamming, but it would also most probably make missle turrets unpopular.

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[Doom]

i fly GB every day...most of the time i am out numbered and over powered by bigger ships. GBs agility is only thing that gives u chance of surviving in that type of fight. My GB has 3 infernos, 2 cerebrus and one missile turret. I found that it is universal set up. Works fine against all types of ships. But it doesn't do instant kill for any type of ships (except NPC light fighters)...i fought two days ago against one Yngen in his eagle. That fight lasted longer then above mentioned 30 secs....and most of my missiles missed him..

However...GB or cruiser that are equipped with all missiles gives no chance what so ever to the ship one level below...
VHFs have no chance against all missiles GBs, cruisers have no chance against all missiles cruisers...
Once your shields go down if u survive first missile salvo in VHF, or few in GB, most of your weapons and equipment will be lost..thruster usually goes first...and with out it u make even easier target.

Good pilot in VHF can dodge one or even two missiles...even in GB is possible to dodge missiles (but very hard)..but when u see dozen missiles flying towards you from 2.5 k range before u even see aiming cross what real chance u have...

In my GB i will always take and kill another GB with all missiles. In fighter i will not event try...

Solution for this in my opinion isn't nerfing GBs, or cruisers or missiles...I agree with ideas that, like in fighters, capital ship missiles use ammo...and not more the 70 of them...when u limit their number person in the cockpit of all missile vessel will think about it when he uses them...

On another point. Somewhere above there was a list of what kind of ship can another.
I don't agree with that list... In my GB i killed cruisers, destroyers, and even done damage to battleships. But all those ships had very bad set up....against well set up ship (and i am not thinking on all missile types) ships class below has small chance of winning...and currently we have that balance...

[Nussebull]

Limited ammo on a cruiser/battleship uh? In that case, loads of ammo, I have 2 mls turrets mounted,
mainly used for missile shields as X-Lancer mentioned (used it against him in CR:P)
Now these missiles should have unlimited ammo, reduce tracking ability slightly, enough
to keep the fighters from shooting you constantly.

I like having unlimited ammo, you can travel around in a capship and harvest pilots without having
the thought of running out of ammo, that's what I think.

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FYI: Nussebull = lolwutter

[Nightfall]

As long as I am reimbursed after this here 'wiping of the server', I'm fine with it. I just want my lovely little Pride of Kusari. And I'll be battered and deep fried before I accept anything else! I WILL SATIRIZE THIS INCIDENT!

I will seriously be answering: we all have to face the player wipe and start all over, thank you.:P

Anyway, I felt as you do now on the last player wipe and I had worked a lot more than you and I had like 5 battleships, at least 5 cruisers and a whole bunch of fighters (I was using 5 accounts, so you figure how many chars, you can multiply I reckon).

Can a turret be modded to use ammo?

Yes, there's a line in the definition of any weapon 'uses_ammo = yes (or no)' so you start from there.

I like having unlimited ammo, you can travel around in a capship and harvest pilots without having
the thought of running out of ammo, that's what I think.

You're just lazy. I feel the same as you do, but I'm trying to be realistic.

Ammo requirements seems to be an answer. Possibly -the- answer. Can we all agree to add ammunition requirements to capital-class missiles instead of energy? Yes? Good!

Kane, I wholeheartedly agree on what you say here and what you said earlier but take into consideration the fact that you're not abusing loopholes and also not putting all missiles on your battleship.

Another fact is that the gunboats are too agile as they are and cannot even be hit, not to mention that 4x corsair cruiser turrets + 2x cerberus cruiser turrets are barely denting their shields so you have to use infernos (provided you hit) and missiles or battle razors for hull as anything else isn't making any significant damage because it can't keep it under fire for any significant amount of time.

I suggested the huge capship prices in order to make those ships rare. You have a strong sense of reality. In reality, would there be more capships than fighters? I don't think so, the ratio would be more like 1 capship to 1000 fighters. Why couldn't we have 1 battleship to 10 fighters, or at least to 5(6) fighters?

One more issue is the miner equipping class 8 (gunboat class) turrets. It would be nice if it didn't fall down to 3-4 people reporting that kind of exploits, if someone finds them, it would be usefull to report, not use them in PvP (a few of you who I know not reporting I won't name but hope for that next time when it happens).

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If the stars should appear one night in a thousand years, how would men believe and adore and preserve for many generations the remembrance of the city of God? - from 'Nightfall' by I. Asimov
The Outcasts consider Siniestre Nube a sacred place for several reasons. Early explorers discovered a jumphole within the depths of the cloud that leads to a strange world of ringed stars and strange craft. All ships in the burrial ground are placed facing that hole to honor the Alien Spirits. - An Outcast rumor

[X-Lancer]

I will seriously be answering: we all have to face the player wipe and start all over, thank you.:P

Anyway, I felt as you do now on the last player wipe and I had worked a lot more than you and I had like 5 battleships, at least 5 cruisers and a whole bunch of fighters (I was using 5 accounts, so you figure how many chars, you can multiply I reckon).
Yes, there's a line in the definition of any weapon 'uses_ammo = yes (or no)' so you start from there.
You're just lazy. I feel the same as you do, but I'm trying to be realistic.
Kane, I wholeheartedly agree on what you say here and what you said earlier but take into consideration the fact that you're not abusing loopholes and also not putting all missiles on your battleship.

Another fact is that the gunboats are too agile as they are and cannot even be hit, not to mention that 4x corsair cruiser turrets + 2x cerberus cruiser turrets are barely denting their shields so you have to use infernos (provided you hit) and missiles or battle razors for hull as anything else isn't making any significant damage because it can't keep it under fire for any significant amount of time.

I suggested the huge capship prices in order to make those ships rare. You have a strong sense of reality. In reality, would there be more capships than fighters? I don't think so, the ratio would be more like 1 capship to 1000 fighters. Why couldn't we have 1 battleship to 10 fighters, or at least to 5(6) fighters?

One more issue is the miner equipping class 8 (gunboat class) turrets. It would be nice if it didn't fall down to 3-4 people reporting that kind of exploits, if someone finds them, it would be usefull to report, not use them in PvP (a few of you who I know not reporting I won't name but hope for that next time when it happens).

But a BattleShip only have 70 missile is impossible, in real life, a cruiser's missile like have over 100 of them, and the Missile's damage, range, should be make it stronger`````(I mean the range is the Seeker Range and the Missile's Life Times)