How to make Discovery better?

[Harcourt.Fenton.Mudd]

I say just change the starting system to a system with a semi hidden jumphole to penn.

Hide the 'how do I get out' answer in the readme that comes with the mod, preferbly somewere in the rules.


People that just join w/o reading anything will then not even be able to make it to penn to get started.

[Friday]

I can see a bum-load of PMs...

"What do I do nao Pl0x LOL!"

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[Harcourt.Fenton.Mudd]

Well taht would be simple

1- make giving the answer a sanctionable offence.

2- make it so people that are unable to figure out how to get out of the system after a certain ammount of time are auto-banned. That or have a special sanction notice that reads 'READ THE README NOOB'.

[Bear]

I don't think that's a feasible option.

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[n00bl3t]

Nooblet,

There are only two IDs in the game that are not faction IDs, and both of them are prepatory IDs. First, the civilian. This ID is basically a flashing light that says, "I'm a noob, don't shoot!" It's only purpose is to allow the player to prepare for joining one of the factions. Second, the recruit. This ID tells the other players, "Yes, I know my equipment and diplomatics don't mach my tag, I'm fixing that as fast as I can." It's only purpose is to allow established players to change thier faction.

The "generic" IDs are still faction IDs. First, lets look at the definition of faction. A faction is a group of people who express a shared belief or opinion different from people who are not part of that group. When you fly with the Mercenary ID, you are associating yourself with all other mercenaries. You are a group of pilots who:

Can trade and escort Traders
Can fulfill lawful and unlawful bounty contracts
Cannot pirate, but can provide security services for pirates who are pirating if paid to do so. Mercenaries can only fire on traders or smugglers in self-defense or if the trader or smuggler fires on or is bountied by the mercenary's employer
Cannot demand contraband unless specified in employer's bounty
Cannot use any transports with more than 3,800 cargo
Can only fly Fighters, Freighters, Transports, and Gunboats.

These limitations, though looser than many, tell you about the beliefs of the faction. Mercenaries, as a whole, don't care who paid for the hit. Mercenaries disdain pirating, but they have no compunction about protecting pirates. Mercenaries aren't lawmen, so they don't care if somebody else is carrying contraband. I could go on, but I'm sure everybody gets the picture. A generic faction is still a faction, with it's own specific characteristics.

Now lets talk about the rules. If you find a player violating role play, you can snap a screen shot and send it to the Administration. First, the administrators are busy people. They have plenty to do, and that means that there is going to be, either a considerable time lag, or they will have to take time off from other important tasks. Second, there are hundreds of us, and only a handful of them. Keeping track of repeat offenders is going to be difficult enough because of sheer numbers, let alone name changes. In the mean time the violator is still busy violating and disrupting the play of the players who are following the rules. In the offical factions, this kind of problem is often resolved in a day, sometimes even a matter of hours. With Independants I have seen the process drawn out to a week and the average is a few days. A lot of damage is done in that time that could be prevented.

As for the power official factions have over independants, the leaders can give independants minor orders. If the independant declines the order, the faction leaders may role play thier unhappiness, and a court-martial. If the independant still declines the order the leaders of the official faction can order the independants death. If the Independant continues to decline the order then they can request that the Independant be changed to hostile with thier faction. The only one of these that puts any real pressure on the Independant is changing it to hostile, and once again we have the process to go through while he/she continues violating.

You ask what kind of situations the official factions can't handle with thier current power. They cannot deal with players who don't care if they anger the factions. The punishments, excepting the last, are so light as to be rediculous. So, those who are breaking cannon, and know it, do so with the full knowledge and acceptance of what the consequences are. If this happens, then the consequences are not astringent enough.

The traders who dock nine or ten times on restricted bases because they can make three times as much as at the accepted bases. The pirates who pirate a dozen traders in restricted areas because there is more traffic there. The player that spends most of thier time in restricted space. These players are violating thier roles and know that, generally speaking, they are only going to get told to stop. A few hours, a day maybe, and they are back at it again. This is the kind of thing the factions can't handle, because they don't have the power to put a real stop to it. This is the kind of widespread ooc violations that official factions can efficiently police amongst thier own players, because of thier power to levy stricter rules and punishments, but cannot among independant players.

Really, you mean I cannot keep my Civilian ID after level 40?

Adding on to that, the Zoner ID. Possibly the most iconically anarchist ID that will ever exist, but thus besides the point. The only thing you share is the fact that you do not share much in common. You look out for yourself as a collective, and that is about it.

Sure, rules, let us talk about them. Since it is so hard for Administrator's to process, we should get rid of them altogether. Wait, what? They are there for a reason, and there is a reason the Administration handles them. There is a delay so that the situation can be fully processed and you do not rush off half-cocked. As for name changes, sure, it must be hard for the Administrators to keep track of, thank goodness the factions can track those.

Breaking canon? We make canon as we go. Anything that is not fully role-played out, it is OoRP behaviour, for instance an OC IFF Sabre with a Corsair ID in a Liberator allying itself with Rheinland. This is easily dealt with within the rules.

If it is so widespread, the Administration will deal with it. Rule 1.2 comes to mind, to be quite honest. If it is not being dealt with, perhaps the Administration wishes for you to deal with it in-RP, since they do not consider it OoRP? Pirate the traders, bounty the pirates and patrolling vital areas instead of just power-gaming the protection?

Nooblet,

I gave you the definition of faction and yet you still persist denying it. Nowhere in the definition of the word is there anything that says that a faction has to have a leader. It is amazing how you ignore what you don't want to be true. Corsairs and Outcasts aren't in the same faction, because they have differing ideals. Just because they agree on some things doesn't make them one and the same. It's the differences that define them. Sharing ideals that are different from others ideals is the very definition of a faction. Look it up.

Yes, it is actually a rule, if a faction leader gives you an order and you are and independant of that faction, you do have to carry out the order.

RIGHT 2) Official factions have authority over players of the same NPC affiliation, as long as RP justification is provided. This authority applies in forums and in-game, and applies to player faction diplomacy, and strategic and tactical direction. However, exercise of that authority, on the forums and in game, is restricted to official faction members with the rank of the official faction leader and one rank below him/her. The authority may be exercised through the use of in-game in-RP orders, which, if not obeyed, can result in in-game in-RP consequences (arrest, court martial, and even "lethal" force in extreme circumstances). Official Factions cannot, under any cicrumstances, require another player to follow non-canon RP if that player doesn't want to.

The fact that independants disregard the rules just illustrates my points. The majority of the Independants are not following the rules of thier factions, let alone the rest of the game. The factions cannot be expected to follow the rules if the Independants do not have to. And they certainly can't be said to have the power to stop violators if an established player like yourself doesn't even know the rules he is breaking.

Also, I have never once stated that offenders should be banned. In fact, my suggestions have all been in game elements. I want to give the factions the ability to enforce the rules they are supposed to be able to now. I want Independants limited because it is far to easy for the system to be abused as it stands. I want rewards for official factions to encourage participation, role play, and fair play.

And finally, I illustrate my points with civil language, providing the proof of my statements, and ask that those disobeying the rules be punished for thier violations. And despite this, you call me a six year old. I am going to lower my standards for just a few moments, now. I am going to point out your flaws.

1: You deny the facts of the matter. [Definitions of words and clearly stated rules.]
2: You fail to provide proof of your arguements.
3: You fail to do research on the matter.
4: You take quotes out of context, ignoring what you do not want to aknowledge.

Is your argument invalid because I did not say that, and as such every single fact that progresses from what I did not say is therefore also invalid?

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Shryke]

1 : a party or group (as within a government) that is often contentious or self-seeking : clique
2 : party spirit especially when marked by dissension

Definition #1 implies there is some sort of organization or group striving for some sort of goal. Definition #2 is entirely political. Both of these imply leadership and structure. What is structured about a Mercenary working for himself trying to make a buck? Also, what is the official faction that can dictate to independent mercenaries/freelancers/generic pirates what to do as you clearly want?

Are doctors in a faction? What about pharmacists or nurses? They're all registered with an organization that regulates them. Would you consider them part of a faction?

If Discovery has it's own definition of faction I'll acknowledge that, but as for the standard definition in the English language, me equipping a generic pirate ID doesn't make me part of a faction. If you can't comprehend that in regular English, then I'm pulling the handle on my Russian NeverFail ejection seat.

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[pipboy]

Definition #1 implies there is some sort of organization or group striving for some sort of goal. Definition #2 is entirely political. Both of these imply leadership and structure. What is structured about a Mercenary working for himself trying to make a buck? Also, what is the official faction that can dictate to independent mercenaries/freelancers/generic pirates what to do as you clearly want?

How on earth does having a goal mean that you have to have leadership and structure?

And I just said that official factions do not represent the entire in game faction. Do you read anything?

As it stands now no official faction represents their entire faction as a whole (this is how indies exist), so each official faction is a faction of the larger faction. If I lost you, sorry. Use a dictionary and figure it out for yourself.

Clearly I lost you.

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[Reacher]

I think really the problem with official factions is that they need to be more active (MUCH MORE) and be a little proactive. I really really miss all the 101st and SOB. If they we're around more it wouldn't be and OORP/OOC pew pew fest around Malta. Please come back SOB and 101st the orange dream REALLY needs you.

Edit: Me leaving OC isnt going to do any good but damn guys if i can randomly find some hacker indies and end up having great RP on my GC then end up blown up by two OC indies for no reason... it makes you think.

[Exsiled_one]

While all this sounds fine and dandy I have to warn about one thing.
The goal here for all factions isn't really to draw in people that spend enough time on the forums and even contribute by it to its roleplay / development.

It's the people that spend most of their time in the game that we want to draw in and include. So while Nooblet and some others defend the independancy if their characters with valor, we really should leave them doing that, because they do a good job. We should be focusing on those that aren't contributing much. Basically those that don't read forums, or in game news until some "shizzle" hits the fan and their way of making money needs to change.

In game news for official factions rocks, and its a good perk you can add that we can actually use. But the playerbase of people using it won't raise at all. All the people I described above aren't interested in that at all. So, if you want to make official factions having some advantage over MAJORITY of the players around, make them have some advantage that those uninterested in anything but money can appreciate.

That usually means more money, faster trade routes or some way to control certain commodities to official factions only. Then, as those people actually join up the factions, the rest will follow, because you have their attention. That way the rest of playerbase doesn't lose much, but the officials do gain plenty.

Example: Plutonium - Okinawa. For official GMG / Kishiro / Interspace the cost is 200 per unit, for unoficial is 700.
That way the factions can even put some weekly fees to their members, and then pay 10% monthly to the Government (Samura to Kusari Emperor), and that way even Government can get included in the game. Maybe I'm thinking too globaly, but it would be nice if Governments can fund starting corporations one day, or actually keep their lawful forces on some minor (but still important) payroll.

Thanks for reading.

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<span style="color:#33CC00">I AM GIVING AWAY MONEY TO CREATIVE MINDS*</span>

[barrenwzste]

First, I apologise. My last post was intended for Shryke, not Nooblet. I am human and make mistakes, and for this one, I am sorry.

Nooblet,

I cannot believe that, you too, will sit there and deny the facts. Let me give the definition again, and break it down to show how it all works together.

Faction:
Main Entry: faction
Pronunciation: \ˈfak-shən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French & Latin; Middle French, from Latin faction-, factio act of making, faction more at fashion
Date: 1509
1 : a party or group (as within a government) that is often contentious or self-seeking : clique
2 : party spirit especially when marked by dissension

factional \-shnəl, -shə-nəl\ adjective

factionalism \-shnə-ˌli-zəm, -shə-nə-ˌliz-\ noun

factionally \-ē\ adverb

Nowhere there does it express the need of leadership. The only requirements being a group of people within another larger grouping that have a dissenting or differing view, often self serving. Groups of anarchists are still groups whether they have a leader or not. You can keep your civilian ID past 40, now, but all that means is that beyond level thirty you become a faction, rather than a game device.

Now here is the chart showing how this relates:
Sirius = Encompassing Social Entity
Liberty = One large Political Faction within the Social Entity
Liberty Navy = A large Political Faction within Liberty
LSF = A small faction within the Liberty Navy.

I think a good portion of the problem is that players think that being an Independant equates to being an individual with no ties and no set role play. This just isn't true. You can be an individual in even the most tightly controlled faction. Individuality is expressed by choices and attitudes expressed within the society the individual is part of. For example, junkers, for the most part, do not like big corporations. There are several ways to play that, you dislike all associated with the big companies, you only dislike the companies the people are just doing a job, you only dislike the heads of the companies the poor working stiffs are in the same boat as you. The list goes on. And this is just one choice that can be made, within the framework of the faction, that expresses your individuality. That said, you have to remain within the framework of your chosen faction. Independants do not get to ignore the limits and regulations of thier faction ID in preference for thier own limits and regulations. You have to mount an ID, you have to follow the rules of that ID.

I didn't say get rid of rules, I said make them stricter. In particular, make Right 2 of official factions have more sting so it can actually do what it was designed to do. Nor did I say I wanted to get rid of Administrative controls. I believe that ooc violations should be handled by the official factions, yes, but the rest of the infractions should remain in the hands of the Admins. This will lighten the load on the admins and put the power and responsibillity of dealing with bad role play where it should be, in the hands of the players. What would be the basis of what is good role play, your faction ID of course. If your role play falls within the scope of your ID, you are fine, if it does not, you are in violation. Simple and, with screenshots being required, very hard to abuse.

We very definately do not make up Cannon as we go. Cannon has to be tried, judged, and accepted by the community as a whole. What this means is that, no matter how brilliant your role play is, if it isn't part of the written and accepted storyline, it isn't cannon. For example, you could develop a story line to role play where the nomads are paying for kidnapped scientists from the houses because they are engaging in research they don't want thier allies to know about. As a result your character, being the upstanding and community oriented pilot that he is, decides to stop all the traitors transporting scientists to the nomads. With this firmly in mind, you proceed to force traders to dump loads of scientists or you kill them, role playing it brilliantly. However, what you are doing isn't cannon. You are forcing your own made up role play on others. Role play that is in clear violation of rules and regulations. It doesn't matter that you put a lot of time and effort into it. It doesn't matter that you role played it to the hilt. What matters is that what you did negatively impacted the game for others and violated the rules. Being an Independant does not give you the right to change the role simply because you do not like, or do not want, the various limits and regulations attached to it. It simply means you do not have to follow the even stricter limits and regulations placed on you by the official factions.

I already pointed out the reasons why it is difficult to deal with the majority of ooc violations. The fact that it is so widespread proves my point. If it were easily handled, we wouldn't be having the problem we now face. There will always be a handful of violators, of course. But it is so rampant now that we are loosing good, role play oriented, players over it.

By all means handle the ooc violators in-game and while role playing. That is exactly what the admins were asking. The problem is, the devices that the players have for dealing with the problem do not work. The problem characters are not the new players who, in ignorance, committ ooc violations. The problem is the players who know very well what they are doing is a violation, and do not care. Some of those claim they are Independants and can play thier role how they want. Some are simply trying to get around faction limits to make more credits or find more action. It doesn't matter, they are intentionally violating, and most continue to do so even when bounties are placed on them. A good start would be if you changed the bounty so that with a screenshot of the violation anybody can collect the bounty, but untill then, bounties just don't have the sting they need. It's to easy to aviod the bounty hunters and getting killed a couple more times a day just isn't much of a deterrent. If one of the strongest measures you can take against violators is that ineffective, then there is something wrong with the system. The punishment has to be severe enough that when players contemplate violating, they discard the idea as not worth the consequences.

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&quot;Two things I know; Gravity sucks and Ion Storms blow. And that proves the universe is trying to kill us all&quot; - Barren Waste, Captain of the Wasteland Wanderer

An approximation of my reaction when I see my next victim...er, these forums.