How to make Discovery better?

[barrenwzste]

Nooblet,

My largest and ricest character ship is a Firefly. I also fly a Bulldog, Recycler, Kingfisher, and CSF. I don't have a single capital ship. But me not flying a capital ship isn't going to solve the problem any more than your other suggestions. If the system worked we wouldn't have so many capital ships flying around and we wouldn't have so many ooc violations. The fact of the matter is, we have both. Therefore telling them that what they are doing is wrong and that they should stop is obviously not working. If they won't control themselves a more strict set of controls should be placed on them.

How many capital ships do you fly? How many standard ships do you fly? If you limit yourself as I do, only one ship that is non-standard or limited by story line for every five characters, then excellent. If you aren't flying more standard ships than limited and/or capshsips, then you are part of the problem. I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but not every character can be a funboat or capship captain. Not every character can fly non-standard ships. That's why they are limited by story line, that's why they are called Capital ships. Because they are supposed to be special, not dime a dozen.

And finally, everybody would have equal opportunity to fly capital ships with what I proposed. All you would have to do is join an official faction and do some role play with them. If you are already role playing, it won't be any kind of imposition. It won't take any more time or effort than the role play you already do. And you are pretty much gauranteed to get a shot at a capital ship. I may take a bit longer, and the role play competition will be better, as we all strive for the limited number of Capships, but you will have an equal chance. You don't even have to give up any freedoms, because if you are already following the rules of the NPC faction, you are pretty much doing the same for the Official Player factions, and they allow special role play if you do it well enough, too.

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"Two things I know; Gravity sucks and Ion Storms blow. And that proves the universe is trying to kill us all" - Barren Waste, Captain of the Wasteland Wanderer

An approximation of my reaction when I see my next victim...er, these forums.

[Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever]

Are you saying if you have more than one cap, you're contributing to the lolcap problem?

[barrenwzste]

No, because you can have more than five characters. I'm saying if your capital ships and limited ships outnumber your standard ships then you are part of the problem. They are the standard ships of the faction for a reason, they are meant to be used by the majority of the characters in the faction. I am also saying that lolcaps aren't the entirety of the problem, just the most vocal and therefore most noticed. When you fly through a system and there more capital and restricted ships than anything else, role play has broken down in favor of game mechanics and pvp.

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"Two things I know; Gravity sucks and Ion Storms blow. And that proves the universe is trying to kill us all" - Barren Waste, Captain of the Wasteland Wanderer

An approximation of my reaction when I see my next victim...er, these forums.

[Baltar]

*Sigh* Once more into the breach....

First and foremost, joining a faction is a requirement to playing on the discovery server. You must choose and join one and then mount the proper id for one. Factions are what define what roles we play. This game is about, and always will be about, your faction and it's relations with the other factions in the game. Rant against that all you want, it is the truth.

You've been a member for what ... 3 months? And you're dictating what the requirements are here? Dude ... why don't you hang out and get your feet wet before you start lecturing the rules.

There is NO rule whatsoever that says you must join a faction. As Shryke mentioned ... there's lots of independent ID's to be had and there's lots of role play with those ID's ... so drop the high and mighty routine ... hang out ... and learn from those that have been here a while.

By the way ... what do you think the word "Freelancer" means? Here's a link for ya ... Freelancer.

[Randomizator]

Before the previous (and much less polite) thread was locked, Redcrab came with an excellent idea that could be an actual solution for the people flying around in capships without rp : force them to write some forum rp about the ships to be able to buy them. And indeed, these people are mainly inexperienced players who trade as efficiently as they can for several days, and then buy the ships witout any rp consideration to get the firepower they want. If writing some rp about the ship before purchase (nothing fancy, just a coherent minimum) was required, it would force the... Well i'll use the consecrated term, lolwuts, to join the forums, thus learning more about the community and rp, and anyone having noted a capital ship's name ingame could check its story on the forums.

Furthermore, this solution would not give any extra power to the factions (and really, they are fine as they are), and it would limit EVERY capital ship and force their owners to rp. It would neither give more work to the admins, as the rp stories would not need to be approved, but anyone could provide feedback about them, and the ships that really don't want to comply with the "rp minimum" would be deleted, pretty much as they currently are. This would be exactly as, again, Redcrab said : like the "white cells" in the ship equipment and id chart. A capship is supposed to be unusual, exactly as the white cell setups are.

This is not my idea, but i completely agree with it.

Now to Strom : what's the problem with people flying more "non-standard" ships than "standard" ones ? Doesn't that mean that their rp is more diversified than most ?

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Revenge of the NPC Nomad lore!

[barrenwzste]

Baltar,

Please read my other posts in the thread. I've provided the proofs of my arguement so many times it isn't funny. You have to have an ID equipped at all times. Each ID represents a faction. You have to play the role that coincides with your chosen ID. If these things are true, and they are, then you MUST join a faction. Yes, even the Freelancer ID represents a faction. They are a common group with ideals that differ from the rest of the communities, in one fashion or another, and therefore a faction. Do you have to join an official player faction? No, and I'm not proposing that we make rules that say you do have to join an official player faction. But you do have to join an NPC faction. You do have to play a role within that faction. And the role you play must observe the mores, ethics, and limits of said faction. That is server rules.

Randomizator,

I don't wholly dissaprove of this notion. I do not think that it's strict enough, but it is a step in the right direction. One problem is that if the stories don't have to be approved then the players can just write any bit of drivel and post it to get their ship. Regardless of whether or not it represents cannon and thier faction role. It has to be approved or nothing will really change. If they are willing to powertrade for a few days they will certainly be willing to take another fifteen minutes to post a one page short story. The stories would have to be monitored so that those that break the rules can be weeded out and the applicants told to do more research and reapply.

Now, to answer your question, if everybody is flying a capship, then capships aren't providing diversity. Diversity isn't found in the ship you fly, it's in the character you play. For example, I have two characters flying the same ship. They are about as different as you can get in that situation. One is young, one is old. One has formal education, one is self educated. One speaks most properly, one caint pernounse a singal wert righ. One..., well, you get the picture. In order to ensure that the ships we fly help to differentiate ourselves from everybody else, we have to make sure that all the ships are used, including the ones that aren't so good in combat. Also, the standard ships are what the majority of people within a respective faction fly. Therefore, our role play should reflect that. Five capships in your account isn't good roleplay, it's the very opposite.

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"Two things I know; Gravity sucks and Ion Storms blow. And that proves the universe is trying to kill us all" - Barren Waste, Captain of the Wasteland Wanderer

An approximation of my reaction when I see my next victim...er, these forums.

[Shryke]

Please read the other posts in the thread. I've provided the proofs of my arguement so many times it isn't funny. You have to have an ID equipped at all times. Each ID represents a faction. You have to play the role that coincides with your chosen ID. If these things are true, and they are, then you MUST join a faction. Yes, even the Freelancer ID represents a faction. They are a common group with ideals that differ from the rest of the communities, in one fashion or another, and therefore a faction.

Read post #74.

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[barrenwzste]

Shryke,

Faction: a party or group (as within a government) that is often contentious or self-seeking
party spirt especially when marked by dissension

Party: A person or group taking one side of a question, dispute, or contest
A group of persons organized for the purpose of directing the policies of the government
A person or group participating in an action or affair

Group: A number of individuals assembled together or having some unifying relationship

Freelancer: A person who acts independently without being affiliated with or authorised by an organization
A person who pursues a profession without a long-term commitment to any one employer

We'll start with freelancer and use the definition that least fits with what I intend to prove. So a freelancer is a person who acts independently without being affiliated with or authorised by an organization. Next we'll look at the definition of group. A group is a number of individuals assembled together or having some unifying relationship. There are many freelancers, so they are a number of individuals. And they have a unifying relationship, they all want the governments and factions to leave them alone to ply thier trade. That means we have a group of freelancers. A faction is a...group (as within a government) that is often contentious or self-seeking. Well, the freelancers are definately a group. They are contentious and self seeking. In short, they are a faction. I used Webster's Definitions for this, but if you want we could use the Wiki. They prove it even quicker.

I'm not just proving game mechanics here, from a social standpoint what I have stated is also true. In real life we are all part of the gamer faction. We have no real leaders or orginizational flow chart. We just all share a belief that gaming is fun. Within that faction there are others. In this case there is the faction that believes independants on discovery's 24/7 server should be limited. There is also a faction that believes that they shouldn't. Neither faction has aknowledged leaders, neither faction has any formal commitment or organization. We are factions, none the less. And if we are parts of a faction, then freelancers are too.

I am not blaming the Independants for not joining official player factions. I'm not saying the Independants are the root of all evil. I have often stated that there are bad official faction role players as well as independant. And I have an independant character I play as well. What I have said is that the independants, as a whole, violate ooc more. The reason for this is that system for Independants is far easier to abuse. I have also stated that I'm willing to accept limitations on my Independant character if it will result in a better role play environment. I am less concerned about having the best pew pew and more concerned with having fun with my character.

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"Two things I know; Gravity sucks and Ion Storms blow. And that proves the universe is trying to kill us all" - Barren Waste, Captain of the Wasteland Wanderer

An approximation of my reaction when I see my next victim...er, these forums.

[Randomizator]

Strom, it is probably impossible to have each application checked by an admin. The solution would be to have them validated by the factions, effectively giving power over other players to the factions' leadership, and as it has already been discussed before, that is not going to happen. Thats why i said that free rp applications would be a feasible solution. Feasible and actually benefic, because a story would be associated with every capship, effectively limiting the number of misinformed players. And believe me, the type of lolwutter who would actually post an story on the forums would not be turned off by faction application. There is one and only one way to deal with that kind of people : sanctions.

Now about the ships : first of all, i didn't say "people flying capships" or "people flying good pvp ships", i said "people flying non-standard ships". Theres a big difference. For example, a liberty dreadnought is a mass produced standard liberty ship. A blood dragon cruiser, even if it is smaller, is not, because it is rare. As you said, what creates diversity is the diversity of character roleplay. Fine. But i think that you have noticed that in this game, the only thing that you control is a spaceship, not a character running around. That is why your ship must match your roleplay, and it is also why i said that ship diversity contributed to rp diversity. You then wrote "In order to ensure that the ships we fly help to differentiate ourselves from everybody else, we have to make sure that all the ships are used, including the ones that aren't so good in combat." Isn't that somewhat contradictory... Or even nonsensical ?

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Revenge of the NPC Nomad lore!

[n00bl3t]

Nooblet,

My largest and ricest character ship is a Firefly. I also fly a Bulldog, Recycler, Kingfisher, and CSF. I don't have a single capital ship. But me not flying a capital ship isn't going to solve the problem any more than your other suggestions. If the system worked we wouldn't have so many capital ships flying around and we wouldn't have so many ooc violations. The fact of the matter is, we have both. Therefore telling them that what they are doing is wrong and that they should stop is obviously not working. If they won't control themselves a more strict set of controls should be placed on them.

How many capital ships do you fly? How many standard ships do you fly? If you limit yourself as I do, only one ship that is non-standard or limited by story line for every five characters, then excellent. If you aren't flying more standard ships than limited and/or capshsips, then you are part of the problem. I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but not every character can be a funboat or capship captain. Not every character can fly non-standard ships. That's why they are limited by story line, that's why they are called Capital ships. Because they are supposed to be special, not dime a dozen.

And finally, everybody would have equal opportunity to fly capital ships with what I proposed. All you would have to do is join an official faction and do some role play with them. If you are already role playing, it won't be any kind of imposition. It won't take any more time or effort than the role play you already do. And you are pretty much gauranteed to get a shot at a capital ship. I may take a bit longer, and the role play competition will be better, as we all strive for the limited number of Capships, but you will have an equal chance. You don't even have to give up any freedoms, because if you are already following the rules of the NPC faction, you are pretty much doing the same for the Official Player factions, and they allow special role play if you do it well enough, too.

I have over 35 characters, and I daresay the highest cruiser-class collection on this server. Obviously, since I am flying all 35 at the same time, and clogging up the server with my specialness, I am part of the problem.

I have already stated legitimate reasons why people cannot join official factions. Go read them. If you cannot understand these reasons and accept them, then I am afraid your solution and lack of tolerance is unneeded.

No, because you can have more than five characters. I'm saying if your capital ships and limited ships outnumber your standard ships then you are part of the problem. They are the standard ships of the faction for a reason, they are meant to be used by the majority of the characters in the faction. I am also saying that lolcaps aren't the entirety of the problem, just the most vocal and therefore most noticed. When you fly through a system and there more capital and restricted ships than anything else, role play has broken down in favor of game mechanics and pvp.

The NPC's can give you all the static normal RP you want.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.