How to make Discovery better?

[Baltar]

Lolwut? Civilians are a faction now?

LOL ... that's a good one Nighthawk ... a civilian faction. Who'da thought? Now lets watch Strom dig himself outa the hole he's in.

[tansytansey]

I'm more interested in how he tries to explain the Recruit Faction xD

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http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/Ni...gcloudscopy.png
Image turned into a URL because it made your sig too tall. -Zuke
|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Baltar]

Yes ... even better.

[n00bl3t]

***Nooblet***

Your posted reasons for not being able to join a faction did not show a disabillity to join, but a disinclination. If you don't want to join a faction, that's ok. But don't say you cannot, as that is not true. So far the reasons I have seen for not joining a faction are as follows;

1) Inabillity to interact and cooperate with the leader.
2) Disinclination to fly any ship that cannot mount the top of the line weapons or has payload restrictions.
3) Time constraints
4) Disinclination to be punished for violations to roleplay
5) Unwilling to play a character of that faction

Now reasons three, four, and five are rediculous. If you have the time to roleplay with others when you are not in a faction, then you have the time to roleplay with others while in a faction. There are no duties that eat into your time anymore than being an independant does. And if you are unwilling to roleplay a Junker then don't get a Junker ID. If you do, and don't roleplay it according to the faction and faction ID you are going to be punished. To many people are tired of players not following rp and are snapping screenshots for the admins left and right.

Reasons one is a personal reason, and probably the only reason that's been quoted that is not an excuse. If you cannot get along with the faction leader and there is absolutely no chance of amicable roleplay within the player faction because of this, then yes, don't join. Remember, I've never once said that being an independant should be illegal.

Reason two is a mostly a mechanics issue, people are to concerned with pew pew, and not concerened enough with playing thier roles. If you are a pirate, living on the fringe, struggling to make repairs, and living from heist to heist, you aren't going to be flying top of the line ships using top of the line weapons. Not every character you have can be a pirate king or fleet admiral. As I've said, when you fly through a system and there are more capital ships and special/restricted ships, then there has been a breakdown in role play. When you design all your characters so as to use only the best, then you are violating the spirit of the game. You are designing roles to meet the mechanics you want, rather than using mechanics that fit the role.

Time is not a genuine reason? I am unwilling to be punished for role-play errors? Ship choice, as highlighted by the previous words, is quite simply a choice. A character only has to be role-played based on the ID, and the current NPC faction's role-play. A faction's role-play need not be followed. (There was a ruling on this, can anyone confirm it?)

Your experience is vast and varied to make such deductions that playing an independent character of an NPC faction and a a character of an official faction are the same. If you think the playing time and activities are exactly the same, then explain why people join an official faction or perhaps why there are official factions? (You are wrong, but please continue.)

If anything, we should be tired of tosspots whining about independents when an untagged player just happens to be more skilled and kills them, then lobbying for more and more restrictions, when it is obvious they understand very little, if anything at all, of the independent situation, since they are either not independent, or as an independent, they do not own a capital ship.

You also asked how many "special" ships I had in your previous post. I answered, albeit not too specifically. Any specific response you have to that?

Nooblet, Baltar,

Making the same mistake again?

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Shryke]

Don't take it personal nooblet. He's interchanging words as he sees fit, why not forum names as well?

But as to the original topic,

How can we make official factions more appealing? To be honest I don't know. I always thought of official faction status as something every faction should strive for as it's basically a stamp of approval for proper behaviour. Something that separates you from the herd, so to speak. I guess that isn't enough for some, and they require some sort of gameplay advantage, which I am thoroughly against as I'm against all types of elitism.

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[underd0g]

How to make this place a better place?

First, and foremost:

Tolerance. Lots of tolerance. Only when you've run out of it all, and there are no other options left - use the power of reporting. When you first arrive here, new to this mod, and this server or maybe other servers with this mod, the first thing on the list probably is 'try everything, explore everywhere'. This makes for some silly results, character wise, when all's been explored. Been there, done that. Along the way to where I stand now I got many pointers and good advice from you, the other participants of this online community. That is the way to do this. Through tolerance and communication.

Secondly:

Belonging. Like I already mentioned, when you're new around here, you're kinda fuzzy and confused as to what to do, where to belong. But sooner or later you find your place, as an independent player or within a faction. As an independent player you may sometimes find a hard time belonging, still, to the faction your independent character is supposed to 'play' within. This quickly becomes a problem when that independent character sits inside a big, armed, capital ship. He/she probably won't recognize the authorithy of that official faction Admiral (or other faction member) when being ordered around. Certain independents in their big capital ships do never ever 'bend themselves over' and end up flying under their own command. They are the ones ruining most of the atmosphere in Disco. The guys that don't belong to nothing but themselves.

You should have to belong to an official faction, or be able to co-operate with an official faction, before acquiring anything larger than a gunboat class vessle. 'Special RP request'-label the big ships. Since special RP requests now are supposed to be made through faction leaders, I see no real hindrance for this to happen in a close future? Give the independents some other toys to trade/mine for, like a 'holy grail' weapon for fighters for 1.8billion or something (yes, THE Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch!).

Thirdly:

Seriousness. Seriously. This is still a game. Primary function of a game is to have fun. If we take this game too serious, or any other game for that matter (yes, I'm poiting at you, WoW nerds!), it's time to take a long step back and figure out why it affects us this much. Ok, taking our roles within the role-play of the game as serious as we possible can, is important. But only as long as we have fun doing it, and don't end up staring into the great black darkness of space trying to figure out why we're still playing. There are other things in this world that should annoy us more than that pesky indy lolcap reengaging for the eleventh time.

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My characters on Disco:
[LN]-Andy.Doggett, The.Flying.Betty, Russ.Dalton, Harald.Treutiger

Stories:
The Shellback Identity
Trader Blues

[barrenwzste]

To All,

This is simple logic. There are no word games, no random or baseless word substitutions. Every single point I make here can be proven 100% factual. I will even provide links to the sources, excepting links to the rules as those are easy enough to check already. In the end, if a definition fits a person, place, or thing, then it is what the definitions calls it, no matter how it may rail against that fate.

Imagine a man. This man tells himself that he is fighting a war and that in war people die. The problem is that to many of his own are dieing in his estimation. So this man goes and makes a bomb, surely it will make them stop killing his people. Then he drives it through hostile territory to the objective. Once there, he sets the timer and one hour later the explosives go off. On the news that night we hear about another school car bombing. This man, no matter what he may call himself, no matter what affiliations he does or does not have, is a terrorist. He may howl to the world that he is a freedom fighter, but in the end, the definition that fits him is terrorist. Webster's Dictionary

Imagine a woman. This woman tells herself that she was ill used. That it is ok to take back from those who took from her. So she gets herself a boat and some friends and they go out on the ocean. They find a ship owned by the people who took from her and they stop the boat and steal an equivalent amount of stuff back. The next day we read about the massacre of a Chineese freighter off the coast of California. That woman is a pirate. No matter how she denies it, no matter what else she is, she is a pirate. Webster's Dictionary: Pirate Webster's Dictionary: Piracy

These are two examples that show, no matter what a person may think of themselves, the actions, beliefs, physical characteristics, and social status that define them also categorize them. This also shows that it is often not of thier choosing. Words don't care if you don't want them to label you, they do so just the same. It doesn't matter if you want to be called a blonde, if you have blonde hair, you are a blonde. It doesn't matter if you want to be called a child, if you are under a certain age then you are a child. It doesn't matter if a freelancer wants to be considered a part of a faction, if there is a number of them with the same ideals, differing from those held by others, then they are a faction. Words, and thier definitions, don't care.

Now I am going to examine the word Independant, in all it's applicable forms, as well as faction, group, and the rules that apply to all of them.

Group: a number of individuals assembled together or having some unifying relationship Webster's Dictionary: Group

This is pretty easy to see. Any role you choose has limits and regulations, as well as mores and ethics that are common to others. These commanalities are a unifying relationship, and serve to bring them into the definition of a group. This is the social application. Mechanically, the ID you choose gives you commanalities with others who have the same ID, and therefore group you together. Since this is the case, all characters are part of a group, both socially and mechanically.

Independent: 1 : not dependent: as a (1) : not subject to control by others : self-governing (2) : not affiliated with a larger controlling unit <an independent bookstore> b (1) : not requiring or relying on something else : not contingent <an independent conclusion> (2) : not looking to others for one's opinions or for guidance in conduct (3) : not bound by or committed to a political party c (1) : not requiring or relying on others (as for care or livelihood) <independent of her parents> (2) : being enough to free one from the necessity of working for a living <a person of independent means> d : showing a desire for freedom <an independent manner> Webster's Dictionary: Independent

1) Not subject to control by others: self-govrening. There is no character that this is true of in the game. In the game, the local houses make the rules, if you do not follow them they punish you. If they make the rules you have to follow and mete the punishments you receive for not doing so, then they govern you. Outside of the large houses the other large NPC factions make the rules and enforce them. Whether you are in corsair space, molly space, or nomad space, there are rules to follow and consequences for not doing so. That is socially. Now, mechanically, the game itself and the admins govern us, that is simple and should be self evident enough to leave at that.

2) Not affiliated with a larger controlling unit. First, every character is affiliated with Sirius. Second, in order to purchase your Eagle and all the weapons you equipped it with, you have to affiliate with some faction. You have to work closely with them, doing missions, earning thier trust, and associate yourself with them and thier IFF. They may not have tight control over you, but if they control when you get ships and weapons, as well as the missions you can do, then they are a larger controlling unit. This is both a social and mechanical proof.

3) Not requiring or relying on something else. No character in the game could survive without others. Someone has to grow/process the products your character needs to survive. Someone has to fix/build your characters ship and equipment. Someone has to sell your character trade goods, and then another has to buy them back. Someone has to be flying a freighter in order for you to pirate it. This is both a social and mechanical proof.

4) Not looking to others for one's opinions or for guidance in conduct. This is just an extention of point one, and if others govern your actions, then you are being guided in conduct. Mechanically, we have the ID tags and the rules of the server to guide our conduct. Different sets of rules but the outcome is the same, we are guided by others.

5) Not bound by or committed to a political party. Here is the definition that probably has caused the most confusion. There is no such thing as a person without political convictions. Are you for the death penalty or against, for gay marriage or against, for abortion or against, for freedom of religion or against? Politics are everywhere and no man/woman in society can escape their grasp. This holds true for your freelancer. His political convictions are just as strong as anybody elses. He wants free markets, so he can run his small freight business. Or he wants weapons to continue to be sold on the free market so he can legally ply his trade as a mining escort. But mostly, he wants as few regulations placed on him as possible. These are all political stands that he is committed to. And since there are a goodly number of them, they are a political party. They aren't an official house party, but they don't have to be to fit the definition. That is sociatal. By game mechanics your intended roleply determines your ID, or vice versa if you like, but the point is, it forces you into a political set from the moment of creation, and you are bound by that set. Are you lawful or unlawful, that is the first party choice your role/ID makes.

6) Not requiring or relying on others, as for livelyhood. This is an exstention of definition 3, and like three, impossible in-game. You have to rely on others for repairs, ammunition, ships, weapons, trade, and bases to do all these things. Without these things your character has no livelyhood. That is both socially and mechincally true, and over all, we need the admins to settle disputes and the developers to keep the game running smooth and add our new toys.

7) being enough to free one from the necessity of working for a living. This definition can fit characters in all the varied factions. It doesn't mean that the character is not part of the faction anymore, but that the character doesn't have to freight, trade, pirate, escort for money. They do it for enjoyment, to help thier fellows, or to advance the goals of the faction. Mechanically speaking, the game doesn't care if you are playing to make credits or not, and it makes no difference to the ID you have equipped.

8) showing the desire for freedom. This definition, like number seven, can fit any character in any faction. And just like number seven, doesn't mean the character isn't part of a faction. The nomad just want to be free to leave Sirius, the Junker free to scavange the debris fields. This desire for freedom doesn't divorce the character from his faction, it binds him to it even stronger.

Faction: 1-a party or group (as within a government) that is often contentious and self-seeking. 2-a party spirit especially when marked by dissention. Webster's Dictionary: Faction

1) a party or group (as within a government) that is often contentious and self-seeking. This describes the groups within the game perfectley. They are groups, they are within a larger polity, and they are always contentious and self-seeking. That means they are factions.

By simple logical progression, then. Each character is part of a group. Each group differs from the others. Each diffiring group fits within the definition of faction. This social structure fits perfectley over the game framework. All players have to equip a single ID. These IDs place limits and regulations on the characters that must be followed. When there is conflict between the ID and any role-play aspect, the ID is to be followed. Now, the IDs place into groups, as seen by the deffinition of the word group. These groups have differing set role-play aspects that put the character in contention with other groups. That means the rules of the game are set so as to place each group firmly in the definition of the word faction.

There are a few ID's that people may have a problem accepting as a faction. In order to alleviate the confusion I will break down how a few of these more difficult cases.

1) Recruit: The recruit ID is essentially a game mechanic designed to allow established characters to switch IDs and factions. So what faction does this place the character in? The faction they are attempting to join. A recruit, by definition, is a probationary member. In many cases we cannot simply change IDs, we have to clean up our reputations and get the proper ship equipment. So, we accept being a recruit in whatever faction while we change these things. It says, "I know that my reputation, ship, and equipment doesn't match my new role-play, I'm working on that as fast as I can." Socially, your faction is the faction you are joining. Mechanically you are in a grey area designed to allow character changes without rules violations.

2) Civillian: The civillian ID is the begainers ID, and as such is primarily a large flashing light saying, "Dont shootz me, I is n00bz!" However, it does, unlike the recruit ID, have it's own set role-play that is intrinsic only to itself. After certain conditions are met, the civillian ID no longer acts as a device to ensure the players abillity to grow into thier character, but becomes a social group for that charcter. This group having, as I stated, it's own unique values and limits that are in contention with others, makes it a faction.

3) Special Op: This ID is designed to allow special role-play that would be otherwise illegal. It doesn't change the characters original faction, in fact, it reinforces the faction ties saying, "I'm still such and such, I have permission to do this." Mechanically it shows an accepted ooc violation, socially it ties them to thier original faction despite the difference.

And now, I have provided more logic and proof than any of my detractors on this issue, pinning down thier arguements and dismantling them. Beyond this there is nothing I can do. I have proved there are no real independents in the game. I have proved that the game itself places characters in groups. I have proved that all those groups fall within the domain of the word faction. I have proved that in order to play the game by server rules you must join a faction. This game is about factions. If we want to make discovery a better gaming experience we have to prevent the ones who are violating the roles of these factions. If your role-play is at odds with the factions, and you don't have an admins permission you are in violation. If your equipment or ship is at odds with your faction and you don't have propper permission, you are in violation. If your method for generating credits is at odds with your faction, you are in violation. These three are the three I see the most, aside from OOC in system chat and Combat violations. If we want to make Discovery a better role-play environment then we have to ensure that the players are role-playing according to the rules.

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&quot;Two things I know; Gravity sucks and Ion Storms blow. And that proves the universe is trying to kill us all&quot; - Barren Waste, Captain of the Wasteland Wanderer

An approximation of my reaction when I see my next victim...er, these forums.

[Shryke]

Blah blah blah.. head in sand, blah blah blah

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[Baltar]

@ Strom: Strom ... placing you on my ignore list now. You definitely like to hear yourself talk while at the same time not hear anyone else's voice. By the way ... you still haven't answered the question about Civilians and Recruits.

[n00bl3t]

Strom, you have failed to answer my post.

Furthermore, your definitions are RL based. RL is not FL. Independent in RL is vastly different from independent in FL. I would go on and explain how, but I think I would be wasting my time.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.