So we have the Zoners, going "zomg no one should be able to touch us, our entire concept is that of neutrality".
Then we have the piratical peeps, going "evolution of roleplay foos, I want to pirate you anyway".
Suppose that Liberty declares war on Kusari. One of two things is going to happen:
1) The admins go "shouldn't have happened, the events leading up to this are against the established peace between these groups" and retcon it.
2) Kusari declares war back, shooting begins to happen in Galileo and Kepler. Mod may eventually be altered to reflect this, as it has with the existing inter-house wars.
Everyone agree with that?
Suppose then that the Zoners did something like, say... provide the Corsairs with the nukes they need to launch a crippling attack on an Outcast base, and did not sufficiently cover it up/explain that they didn't know it was going to be used like that. By the same token as the above, I would expect the following two responses:
1) The admins go "shouldn't have happened, Zoners would never be so stupid as to break neutrality that badly" and retcon it.
2) The Outcasts go "well if you're going to play it like that..." and shoot every Zoner they see as an ally of the Corsairs. Mod may eventually be altered to reflect this, possibly changing over control of Freeport 10.
However, it seems to be the opinion of the Zoners that the following should happen instead:
1) The Outcasts should respect the canonity of Zoner neutrality, and not respond in kind to what is quite arguably an act of war in their eyes.
Some people at least think that it would be acceptable then for the Outcasts to demand stuff of the Zoners, but I wonder what they'd view as acceptable response should the Zoners turn down those demands.
I know a few people who pirate Zoners extra-hard if they claim "I r zoner u can't shoot me". I certainly did back in 4.84, when it seemed to be the most likely line a trader would tell you, second only to "no english". I had a lot of trouble reconciling the fact that I'm supposed to be both violently opposed to something the Zoners were doing (in that case, perpetuating Daumann's vice-grip over Rheinland by doing the diamond-niobium run) and yet allow the Zoners to be neutral by not shooting them. I could demand they drop their cargo, but if they refused, what did I do? Say "well you're a zoner so keep destroying my country" or what?
There's a problem here. It isn't that Zoners are neutral to everyone. That is neither accurate nor an inherent problem- a comparison might be made to how the Nomads were at one point hostile with everyone. That was not an inherent problem, and with player interaction it changed.
While I can't say that I approve of this faction idea, the responses to it have illustrated what the problem is.
If the Zoners do the bending over backwards to keep everyone happy, then they deserve to keep that. They've done the legwork, it'd be silly not to reward them for it. If, however, the Zoners manage to piss someone off (and not someone who was just looking for an OOC excuse to shoot Zoners, though an inRP Austria - Serbia 1914 style interaction would be perfectly legit) then they should not cry "but vanilla!", they should deal with it. Pay the people off or something, or accept that you've pissed someone off and that they are now, well, pissed off. The only logical alternative I see is for anything that would piss people off to be expunged via admin retcons in the name of preserving vanilla diplomacy.
Personally I'm a fan of not having server events wiped clean to make room for people to do whatever they want. Declaring an NFZ over West Point and then shooting the Navy either gets retconned with a "that never happened, move along" or Liberty responds in kind. Simple as.
Please note that I am not saying that all Zoners go "canon diplomacy, screw your RP developments" or that I hate Zoners. To the contrary, the Zoners are sometimes the people who play along when no one else will. Sometimes they're also the people who go "oh you were around FP1, the nearby players RP'd it as you trying to destroy the place, you played along, you weren't going to make anything of it but the innocent bystanders made a thread out of it trying to develop some minor RP out of the Freeport possibly taking some damage (not enough to shut it down or anything), which might have led to shipping events or inter-faction cooperation and possible RP expansion? Well, I wasn't there and other people were, but I declare that never happened, the Freeport has no damage, F*** OFF." It is that attitude that is problematic. So long as the former is more prevalent than the latter, there is no reason nor need for a faction to show up with the express purpose to show the Zoners that they are not untouchable. When that changes, however... well, let's not find out.
Alltought, I'm with Zeltak on this one. There will be always some people who will dislike you. Or will want your riches, not by trade but by brutal force, and you won't be able to statisfy them in any other way. Need a model? Imagine rogue band of corsairs for example who were exiled from the nation and lives... yanagi perhaps? Or perhaps stays in hawaii becouse can afford best suits for plundered money. (Also, I think, Hawaii administration would like to offer thier guests to talk with "barbarians" person to person as an atraction)
All they live is for the riches. The day they are not pirating in kusari they come to plunder and bully, maybe racket zoners. Why they catch on zoners? - simple, becouse you are rich ! What you can do to them? Nothing, you have nothing to offer to trade or put them under economy sanctions becosue they do not trade at all. All the stuff they get is by plundering, bullying and racket.
Admit it, you will always have some people who will dislike you, or who will be jelous to you. And they will do something about it. I'm not talking about entire factions or something, more likely teamed up individuals. But seems n00blet you don't really try to care about this. And hiding behind 1.2 is just childish. It seems that you have that "Don't dare to step into my sandbox" attitude.
And, moreover, yeah, you pretty sure would be happy to live in greek Sophism philosophers era.
The chief problem with this faction proposal is that it rests on the idea that Zoners are one faction.
Zoners are one "NPC faction," a term that is made to suit gameplay dynamics. Storywise, the term "Zoner" is equivalent of a borderworld drifter, vagabond, etc. It's a generic callsign for people who have left the Houses and other prominant factions.
The Zoners on Gran Canaria are completely different from those that live on Freeport 9 or Freeport 1. The Zoner Alliance is a pact between these drifter colonies, but even then the alliances are lose and most of the ZA's job involves resolving loopholes in the gameplay (such as, who permits non-Zoners to buy a Conference?).
The whole world is not neutral towards Zoners, but the Zoners are neutral towards the whole world. This is to say that a drifter colony is a drifter colony without any particular alignment. The Zoners near Gamma supply Corsairs in order to survive their wrath. The Zoners near Omicron Delta supply the Order in order to surpress Nomad forces parading outside O-74 and around Freeport 11. They don't do it because of good will, although I'm sure some do.
You simply can't pigeon hole the Zoners into one faction and create an organization that wants to kill them all. That's the equivalent of saying that you want to destroy every country with a population of under 500,000.
I'm all for evolution, within the bounds of good roleplay and some give'n take by the protagonists/antagonists.
Your example of Freeport 1 was excellent. I've seen things happen there "both ways". "Never happened" is not exactly my choice of "ways"; rather, our little impromptu delivery of relief supplies when the Freeport was "damaged" showed a strong desire and ability for Zoners to cooperate when the offal hits the oscillating air circulation device.
There are several things in the works vis a vis one group of Zoners which may not be "canon", and may not be widely applauded by sombunall other Zoners. For that audacity, I can only say, read my avatar/siggy.
Most people know my stances about Zoners.
They cannot be united completely or neutral to everyone.
Freeport 1 zoners can surely be neutral to hessians, corsairs, bretonians and mollies, but I see no reason for them to be neutral to.. lets say.. hogosha when they're based off omega 3
Mal you say Corsairs ride you. I would like to know how.
The fact that we're requesting commodities and paying you for them (while you're already getting good cash for them) is just our way to encourage roleplay.
personally, i'ld burn 90% of the zoners passing trough the Corsair space. They are rude, silent and obnoxious. Neutrality has to be earned.
As for 1.2 rule, I doubt it can be enforced here. Zoners are getting rich enough to own a capital ships, massive number of them and few bases and a frikkin planet.
They should be considered a threat from all houses, provided they have enough intel.
Ivan.. "figure of speech", mate. I'm hearkening back to our little tiff with Sephardi, where "vanilla history" was invoked regarding the Corsair colony on Gran C. C'mon, be honest.. you guys, none of ya, roleplay living on Gran C.
And yes, I applaud your roleplay which encourages trade to the Corsairs out of 49. Sombunall TAZ even run those routes; but for the most part it's the other Zoner factions who supply your needs down there. We're way the Thud up in Baffin, remember?
And what? You don't like my new siggy? You should have seen it before I cropped out Eris' "bumpy bits", mate. To die for!
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