Well hack, and joe really. Having thought about this a lot I might be able to raise some points here for you to chew on.
Now I play a merc.
I also roleplay that merc.
I know what I am.
I'm a heartless murdering !*4(*35 who kills anything for money. For that matter pirates are higher on the social hierachy.
Now, being a merc and killing targets for the libby goverment. I don't take orders from indies. I'm a civilian, if a official faction person requests something I will do it.
So you may be wondering how this is relevant. Well myself and two other mercs were hanging around houston hoping to catch a smuggler and make a quick buck. There were 3 of us.
Some indy navy player arrives and starts throwing insults. Not really good captain conduct (gunboat) but yeah alright.
He keeps attempting to provoke us to attack him and also keeps trying to give us orders we ignore. He claims his authority is his big ship.
I got a lil irritated. Our 3 characters got -very- irritated.
Some trader came along, wanted an escort. We offered. He claimed it was his job to do that (now taking work from a merc, not the best of ideas). Then we just let him go.
As 3 fighters we could easily have killed him yet he hides behind the navy tag to "pick on the little people"
So yeah? What do I do? I can't attack him (reasons are below). I don't want to report him to you (navy captian showing poor conduct to your employees) cause that's holding you responsible.
Now while I won't hold you responsible for his conduct I'd like to point out that had we attacked him he could have held us responsible to you.
Firing on a navy officer is a serious offence I would imagine, had we done it and he reported it then we would lose the client.
To give another example:
The zoners get fed up with NFZ violations and bring some guns to the freeport on your rhieneland border.
A smuggler shows up, starts to RP with them.
Some LSF shows up and tries to arrest the smuggler, he then fires at the smuggler.
The zoners blow up the LSF indy for violating freeport law.
He reports this and you then threaten the zoners for attacking their agents.
In other words, and to shorten this:
TLDR version:
You may not be responsible for their conduct but you can hold us (outsiders) responsible for our actions against them.
I do not see why could not a official faction be held responsible for the behavior of this captain.
The report could have been what it is, and then the captain would be summoned to explain himself. the LN Should be keen on believing the gunboat captain instead of the unaffiliated mercenaries so basically unless he's really dumb he would have gotten away with it.
Sadly he taunted you what sucks, and he would probably get a "shape up man" notice but should he feel that trader is more safe with him he surely can take away your job.
Police should be able to have bigger authority than civilians, official faction or not. The problem is what happens after the first person reports him to the high command.
' Wrote:Thats RP and SERVER rules. LN indie cant use RM ship/weapons.. freelancers want LN weapons.. why they need them? Someone needs some RP for something, you need reason, you cant just buy Manta and mount random weapons on it.. Official factions take care of that just because someone needs to..
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Well.. I would like more right for Official faction.. not sure what rights. Just enough so they can deal with troublemakers.. and it's not turning to hostile. Not following faction lore doing something stupid in name of the faction should be against some rules.. :|
That's misunderstanding, I told to leave idiots out of it - When someone get's RM ship with LN weapos, the person should be stripped of it and perhaps killed by boths sides before that time comes. Idiocy isn't RP. Well, not that kind of idiocy, at least.
What I meant was the "You can't use that gun/ship because you're not offic". I would say it's just action and consequences. You claim control, you claim responsibility.
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I'm all for more rights, what I dislike is the fact, that some people would use it to deal with "personal" matters, rather than catching ooRP individuals... very simplifiied of course. Very. A bit like "You are ooRP" and "I don't like your RP", that applies as well.
I buy things I don't want to make an impression on people I don't like.
' Wrote:I do not see why could not a official faction be held responsible for the behavior of this captain.
The report could have been what it is, and then the captain would be summoned to explain himself. the LN Should be keen on believing the gunboat captain instead of the unaffiliated mercenaries so basically unless he's really dumb he would have gotten away with it.
Sadly he taunted you what sucks, and he would probably get a "shape up man" notice but should he feel that trader is more safe with him he surely can take away your job.
Police should be able to have bigger authority than civilians, official faction or not. The problem is what happens after the first person reports him to the high command.
Yeah I get what you saying. However the point I am making is that the man is poking a sleeping lion. I beilieve the characters were or could have been mad enough to kill him, he has a bounty (libby caps) as well. I won't burden Joe or the official. Peeps with it cause really, they have a lot to do as it is and while we roleplay we need to remember the guy behind the character wants a life too.
Not to mention if said factions got very caught up in responding to these things then they will also get 100's of "poor conduct take his ship pl0x" pm's for perfectly good legit RP. One person gets slighted and yeah it goes for a ball too fast.
I do find the navies are a bit quick to react to threats on their indies behalf.
Maybe make a comm thread for it so its all in one place (the innocence proofing part).
I do also feel however that bein in official faction should also mean you have to use that responsibility wisely. However some factions like the libby ones and the outcasts are just too big to control.
Wow, This conversation has gone into 2 separate directions, both of them being very relevant.
Veronee has a very good point, and I concede it to him.
IN rp, Yes, I would expect your character to be Hella mad if something happened to them that shouldn't have. In your characters eyes, LN/LPI/LSF is just that, there is no distinction.
IN Rp, the LN/LPI/LSF CAN and SHOULD call players on the carpet for their conduct. I have often thought that there should be a minimum level of professionalism in the way Lib Lawfuls should present and act In Rp, but then we go down the slippery slope of telling people how to Rp, and we know where that will go, so we won't take that trip.
The thought behind that is when you are in the Military / Police , there is a certain conduct that you are taught and are expected to uphold.
Now, OUT OF ROLEPLAY, which is were I was going with the original post, when things happen like this week, people just go, "Well, he was a Navy/Police/Intel player, so all of them must suck, so lets punish them all" when that isn't the case. That's where I was saying that people should be perturbed at the individual in that case, not the Factions.
Also, I would imagine that a request for FR 2 and 5 need a bit of paperwork and proof, plus, if you ended up having to do it a lot, someone would scream abuse, and then that avenue of removing troublesome players would be revoked.
Formerly known as LPI Police Chief Hull O'Brien.
Creator of Sgt. V. Price, 207th Precinct out of Chula Vista Station
You are all making some heavy assumptions here and we all know that's far from where this all should lead, never mind if it is going well to prove you point.
Let's say that Kishiro travels to Liberty and meets a LN (indie) gunboat zooming around our whales. This guy gets bit annoying and even fires a salvo on our C-transes and whales to "test our shields LOL".
Screenshoting this message and sending it to real LN would be a right thing to do. Should his actions continue, re-sending it to LN would work, until finally we would have to do an OORP response and file a rule violation report on him.
(that's for lols)
Moving to another example. The convoy reaches Liberty now and we have 20k plutonium all together in our holds. The LN (again indie) captain of a cruiser or a gunboat decides to hold down our vessels and make remarks about how dangerous our cargo is.
After detaining us for 15 minutes of system chat and refusing to escort us to pennsylvania after that a message to official LN would be sent again demanding compensation for lost time.
Seeing how we're official, and LN is official there's no reason to say "hey, it's bridge under the water" because that's far from the normal reaction one would expect. "Disciplinary action has been taken take our humble apologies" is something that one would be pleased with.
Keep in mind that indie has the same rights and he can contact his official faction and seek representation in some cases. My Kempetai caught an Zoner capital ship in New Tokyo once and the Capship even fired on me once. I submitted a report to KNF and made sure they're aware of the case. It's the best I can do.
But it all breeds roleplay more than assuming it'll suck.
Well...
This is a difficult arguement cause well Ivan raised another good point.
Telling us in the OP that you can't control independants.
Alright fair enough but when those indies are idiots where do we turn to?
We can't take action against them cause then you (the official factions) step in.
We can't report them cause you not responsible.
So if you are an indy anything you can essentially do whatever you like (as long as its within the rules, as well as give every trader with perishable goods a lecture on proper ship safety, telling them how dangerous their cargo is, make them fly 50. KM above the plane so they don't contaminate anyone or anything) and get away with it.
This could be why we already have such a indy issue. Not all indies are bad. I want this stated as clear as possible.
The ones who are can get away with murder cause they not answerable to anyone (within roleplay).
Yet we are answerable to them.
So where do we go from here then?
My advice. It might be time for an MP (military police faction) who investigate this sorta.... Stuff.
I reckon we make ivan the leader, recruit some pvp whores and boooooooom!
Anyone who belongs to any official lawful faction can make one. They can go anywhere and don't have to answer to anyone. May not be shot at my lawfuls unless that lawful is defending his life.
That faction will never get bored XD
' Wrote:My advice. It might be time for an MP (military police faction) who investigate this sorta.... Stuff.
I reckon we make ivan the leader, recruit some pvp whores and boooooooom!
Anyone who belongs to any official lawful faction can make one. They can go anywhere and don't have to answer to anyone. May not be shot at my lawfuls unless that lawful is defending his life.
I support this idea as long as we're restricted to Caps.
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