[Petition] Un-Nerf Mining!

[Arashi]

I believe mining will make about 30 mil/hour at the moment.

If someone can show me a trade route that makes 40 mil per hour or more, I will increase mining to allow at least this profitability.

If someone can present a good argument about why profitability should be more than trading then I'll make it more than trading.

Well I can't give an example of ALL mining, but I'll give an example of IMG ID/IFF, with Omega Mining Syndicate in Omega 7 mining Cobalt with Ore Sale at Ingolstadt in Munich.

WE don't use Hegemons, so we must use transports.

Basically we try to get 3 or 4 miners with one transport, then we cycle the transports, (transport player switching to miner, while a miner gets a transport), we usually spend a few hours filling 4 or 5 transports (most of them with 4k cargo or more).

During this time we're not only pewing rocks, but we also RP, we get interrupted by pirates, so our transport runs while the miners (Mafic's armed with snacs) usually run the pirate out, with some RP

So the pirates and RP with them slow it down, then we get interactions with kruger next to us (we are in north fields: IMG and Kruger, cobalt, silver and copper ores). Ocasionally a Wild or Phantom, or some such comes in and we run back to friedstadt till that blows over. That's more time we don't mine.

This is what we enjoy, yes it takes longer to mine, we RP when others are around and make it interesting, but it's fun.

Just today before the rephack, we filled 3 Atlas's (4100 ore each) in I think around 2 hours. We stopped for about 20 minutes when a possible pirate showed up (RP'ing it out, is it safe for the transport to return, etc), then regathered to mine and RP some more.

We had to wait to transport the ore to Ingolstadt, because with the rephack we couldn't enter rheinland space without the RM NPC's going hostile on us as soon as a Dauman NPC entered scan range.

Later we started our trip to transport the ore... we had 1 escort, we RP'd a little along the way, it was clear the entire route. But that's not always the case.. sometimes the escort finds a pirate.. and starts RP'ing with the pirate, while the transports take the LONG way around.

Without interference it takes about 20 - 30 minutes to make the run (depending on how many trade lane rings are out from NPC's actions). When there are pirate players along the route that can easily get doubled or trippled. We really don't mind the Player pirates, we even have some fun interactions with Hessian Pirate Players.

So in summary:
Mining = about 2 - 4 hours (we try to mine as a group, filling between 3 - 6 transports).
Transporting Ore (one way): about 30 - 60 minutes (sometimes more with heavy pirate activity). We still have to get the transports BACK to Omega 7 from Munich. The return trip the pirates usually ignore us as we run empty.

So at the original prices, EACH miner was making (for an atlas) 44mil and change, for a minimum of 2 hours of work.

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If we didn't RP we could probably shave 30 - 60 minutes off of that time, and I'm sure their are power mining groups out there, that's all they do, is mine for profit. I personally can say that OMS doesn't do that, and we usually stir stuff up when we mine, for those around us.


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I know that those using Hegemons mining for themselves can make about 30 ish mil for about an hour of work, but Hegemons are EASY targets for pirates. And that 30(ish) mil per hour is not counting paying escorts or protection while mining.

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Ok, I'm not asking you to change the prices of mining.. currently cobalt goes for around 8,600 a piece, I'm estimating that at about 25% cut from original 10,790 price. But with the RP and working as a GROUP, we were still making less than some of the trade runs I hear of, but we were getting RP out of it.


A few suggestions:

Is it possible to:
1A) Lower overall drop rates all around
1B) Solo miners get a standard bonus (for proper mining setup).
1C) increase drop rates for each proper miner GROUPED, in CLOSE Proximity, mining (with proper mining setup).

Example:
1A) Someone in an atlas mining would get 1 drop in 50, with 1 or 2 ore in the drop.

1B) A Hegemon Miner, with proper ID/IFF, and mining turret would get 1 drop in 5, with 1 to 3 ore per drop. ***Restriction*** Hegemons do not count towards multiple miner bonus ((this is to force use of transports instead of bunches of solo miners grouping together just to get the bonus))

1C) 5 miners (let's say Mafics, with proper ID/IFF, and mining turrets) with an atlas collecting, would get a bonus for 5 properly setup miners IF they are in the same group, and within say 250m of each other. This bonus would be something like 1 drop in 5, with 1 to 3 ore per drop multiplied by # of proper miners meeting requirements: so in this case 3 - 15 ore per drop.


2A) Non miners get 0 drops

2B) Properly setup Hegemon Miners get a standard drop rate.

2C) Properly setup dedicated mining ships get improved drop rate (since they have limited cargo hold and most will be mining for a nearby transport, this would encourage group mining.)

EDIT:
As I saw posted in other threads about this issue:
IF a miner is attacked and flee's or is killed, they can no longer mine for 4 hours, a trade ship doesn't have that restriction as they can reenter the system if they are passing through or trading.


EDIT 2:
The idea behind this, and the #'s will need adjusting, is to make non miners not worth the effort, solo miners should make same as avg trade routes, and GROUP mining should get bonus mining potential.

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Enjoying a game isn't always taking the easy route, sometimes you have to take chances and trust in luck, sometimes that luck takes a big bite out of your backside.

[CzeReptile]

Your suggestion is just punishment to people who mine alone.

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[Arashi]

Your suggestion is just punishment to people who mine alone.

Actually the #'s would need to be adjusted but the idea was to make it so that solo miners (properly setup) would make equal to current trade routes, only GROUP mining would make more than trade routes.

EDIT: Besides, the whole idea is to create RP, not power miners... so mining alone does not equal RP therefore should NOT equal BONUS mining power.

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Enjoying a game isn't always taking the easy route, sometimes you have to take chances and trust in luck, sometimes that luck takes a big bite out of your backside.

[Jinx]

foremost - the concern is about players that violate the rules. - players that F1 and such... if mining as it is now encourages such a behaviour, it needs to be changed.

about the mining balance - RP itself does not happen cause someone is grouped up, nor does it happen cause someone is alone and solo. - RP happens when the situation allows it to happen, which involves all sides - miners, pirates, lawfuls etc. NO MATTER if they re alone or with friends.

mining as an activity to create money should be encouraged just as much as piracy, lawful police duty, head hunting or trading. - all those archetype activities follow their own goals. sometimes its about hunting and ultimately pvp - sometimes its the satisfaction of profit in the shape of credits.

for example - head hunters would be pretty messed up - if the console did not provide a "blue message" for a kill anymore - or if such a message only popped up after a certain amount of damage was actually caused by the player ( e.g. not flying into the sun )




miners need to be encouraged to mine and to RP - for that - they need to be motivated to stick to that RP...

so - why is it that miners tend to F1 in the first place? - that is the question that needs to be asked - other than that.... its only a matter of slight adjustments towards the profits. ( when it comes to trading / mining )

why ppl F1 is a question everyone needs to ask him/herself... - is it cause they expect pirates to demand too much? is it cause its such an easy way out ( sanctions not high enough)? is it cause they simply have no chance to do anything else ( drop cargo or die - without a chance to actually have a choice to really win an encounter)?



recently - there were some threads about how pirates own miners. - so when a mining ship is attacked and asked for x amount of money - and x amount of money is simply too much, but leaves the miner no choice but to pay or die ( since his ship isn t equipped to really defend itself or get to a safe haven ) - it does encourage F1. - especially when x ( being a high amount of money ) appears to be backed up by the community.
and again... the old comment "get escorts" kind of fails. its logical - but impractical - after over a YEAR ... it should be obvious for even the blind that it cannot be applied to the casual gameplay situation.

frustration begets violations of the rules in my opinion - and a miner that has once lost all his cargo one way or another - might be frustrated a little too much.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Stoat]

I'm not bothered. I'm not trying to buy a battleship/CapVIII/Faction.

This will not stop the kind of people that use the F1 button from using the aforementioned button anyway

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My Stories

[CzeReptile]

I'm not bothered. I'm not trying to buy a battleship/CapVIII/Faction.

This will not stop the kind of people that use the F1 button from using the aforementioned button anyway

-- that aint a vali argument. You should stop labeling all miners a capwhores with cap 8. --

True that.
I would like to add that mining is not in first place a RP doing. It is way to make cash. I personally have a miner, shared miner and six shared ships to store ore on including a barge. Why?
I have over dozen ships to run, I have faction I am dedicated to which requires money, I need to upgrade stuff, I need to buy codes, etc etc. Now Ill have to work twice as hard obviously for NO real reason. With prices dropped, mining is now HARDLY a 30m per hour. I wonder where Matt got that figure. Id love to see a hegemon mine full cargo ship and run back n forth to NB to earn 30m per hour. Does hardly seem right.

And trading is boring. IT is also not an RP venue in first place. People use it to fund their stuff. To save for new stuff.
Now it will be back to silent powertraders. It is good that we all got punished for the fact that piratF6 is backed by community and reasonable is any amount really.

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[Veronee]

But soft, what light through yonder window breaks?
It is the east, and Juliet is the trader.
Arise, fair sun, and kill the envious miner,
Who is already sick and pale with grief

wait wait wait wait?

The mighty admins peered down apon sirius, they did not like what they saw
all thine pirates are in one spot?
"O why o why little pirates do you live only in dublin and 23?"
"Cause teh miners carry phat ores nub" the pirates cried out
"Why o pirates does thou not spread and tax the traders of sirius? Move yourself across the houses?
May thine tridente and Paetorian find new pastures?" the admins asked.
"lol nubs, teh miners haz phat orez, makes muneh!"
The admins nodded sadly, one by one they turned to each other
drew their nerfbats
and shot the miners.
"Roam free o pirates! Ignore the QQ of the miners! Spread to sirius and tax her traders!"
"wtf? I has to work to tax people nau? and lolwut navies gonna pwn me in caps?"
The admins nodded collectively
"Collect thine brothers pirates, give the traders and navies hell"

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[Enojado]

Looking at the -vast- amount of totally incapable capital ship captains out there I'd say we need to make it a lot harder to earn cash. Let cap ships be a faction investment or something....

Stop your whining and do something you enjoy!

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[PhantomBlade]

Mining is easier than trading.
I want it back.

I voted yes somply because i prefer mining.

But you bring up a good point Mining is easier, Thus shouldnt trading make more money?

It is more dangerous most of the time, pirates major targets are the lanes.

Thus since the Danger is higher the funds should be higher.

Ah well, guess im back to trading, quit whining people it wont help, just accept it and if your good little boys and girls you could probably ask later and they may change it back when you prove youve learned your lesson.

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When life gives you lemons..... throw them at your enemies!!!

Char. Bio's:
Dragen: http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?ac...t=0#entry969820

[ugliestmoose]

foremost - the concern is about players that violate the rules. - players that F1 and such... if mining as it is now encourages such a behaviour, it needs to be changed.

so - why is it that miners tend to F1 in the first place? - that is the question that needs to be asked - other than that.... its only a matter of slight adjustments towards the profits. ( when it comes to trading / mining )

why ppl F1 is a question everyone needs to ask him/herself... - is it cause they expect pirates to demand too much? is it cause its such an easy way out ( sanctions not high enough)? is it cause they simply have no chance to do anything else ( drop cargo or die - without a chance to actually have a choice to really win an encounter)?

For what's it's worth, here's something really simple that I would like to see done:

Increase the drop rate of ore and lower its value; this way, instead of making approximately 1 "trip" per hour with the risk of losing an hour's worth of ore, it would be 2 or 3 trips, with no single trip bearing as much risk. Maybe knowing that he is risking only 15-20 minutes of effort rather than 60 will discourage the threatened miner from F1. Also, it would increase miner mobility which would encourage pirates to spread out more.


What do you all think?