How to ballance mining?

[casero]

Riiiight.
Now lets see for example. Tridente - best gunboat there is. Excellent hitbox, 8 turrets, great handling. Fair enough for a point.
Now lets see again. Setting up this gunboat in reasonable way takes about hour or such + lets say 70-100 millions. Killing miner takes 2 minutes, while he is outta game for at least another hour. Fair play to the pirates ey.

I am just too tired to read it again as you are just defending the pirates. SHould they stay reasonable, this would not happen. I personally have grinded several billions off this mining. Now it is gone. Entire mining bunch of Tau23 is now moving to powertrading. People love credits.

Excuse me, but how is that your entire mining group that you are so proud about, was getting beated by a gunboat? Where are you scouts? where are your protection? Why do you stay static while the gunboat approachs to you from the 14k that you see him on scanners?
I'm sorry but if you entire group gets beaten by 1 Trident, then I quit this game.

And if you were mining alone, then sorry, but mining wasn't supposed to be a solo job, and still you have plenty time to run since the target appears in scanners.

I'm not defending pirates, I'm defending common sense, you had cargo valued on 15k piece... on a 2700 cargo ship, it's around 40 mil per round? WHY IN HELL YOU THOUGHT YOU SHOULD DO IT ALONE?
"Hey I'm flying with 40 mil cargo in my hold, but you will be breaking rule 0.0 if you ask me more than 2 mil (or 5 mil, or 10 mil).

Oh you made it clear

People love credits.

EDIT: I've seen one of the best mining teams in action.

Brock_Kruger, he was one of the best miners, he was at the mining field, shooting rocks all day long, his traders picked it up
like 3 or 4, 5k traders. They were all the time moving, he had mercenaries, whenever he saw someone on the mining field, he docked, and his mercs took the problem out, then he undocked, and got back to mining.

This guy didn't get pirated once in all the time I watched him.

[Cannon]

So far:
1) One player has shown me a buggy 40 mil/hour trade route
2) One player has shown me 2 normal 30 mil/hour trade routes
3) One player has shown me actual mining profits.

Everybody else has complained without presenting any data. The actual mining profits from this mining player seem a bit low and so I'll looking at this specific case.

It seems to me that all of the proposals to 'fix' mining are about reducing the risk.

If it takes 5-10 minutes to fill a transport...there's no risk. If one mining ship can keep a fleet of transports full then it's not mining, it's trading with 0 cost to buy the source commodity. This also means a single player can mine profitably which is definitely not the goal. Mining was and still is balanced to provide greater profits for a group of miners.

These are some of the issues people don't seem to be considering.

If people can show me data that convinces me that mining is less profitable than trading (making some allowance for the increased difficulty) then I'll do something about it.

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Proud member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"

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[CzeReptile]

Want a figure Cannon?
I can mine about 4800 in 45 minutes. Which makes about nice 19200 per 3 hours right? It all gets hauled to the location. at previous it would be 19200 x 12654 = 242,95mil. / 2 = 122,5 mil / 3 = About 40 mil per hour. No pirates no lane down counted in.

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[Cannon]

Mining what and where - it depends significantly on the location and commodity.

Was that just you by yourself? If so then that was too high.

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Proud member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"

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[Govedo13]

My ideas:
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...=72044&st=0

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[CzeReptile]

Niobium in Tau-23. I have a way to get the ore quick enough since I mine with passion in a dusty suggested style. 4 of us could mine full barge in 2 hours. That is 40k of ore.

With the price change, you can just halve the profits.

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[Reacher]

One of the sell points for niobium is just one system away in a stretch of space that is RARELY visited by pirates. No sympathy from me. Max price=Max risk

[Thommy]

People please stay on topic.

This thread is not about pirate guns, its about the balance between drop rates and ore prices.

If it takes 5-10 minutes to fill a transport...there's no risk. If one mining ship can keep a fleet of transports full then it's not mining, it's trading with 0 cost to buy the source commodity. This also means a single player can mine profitably which is definitely not the goal. Mining was and still is balanced to provide greater profits for a group of miners.

These are some of the issues people don't seem to be considering.

Cannon, I never asked to fill the cargo in 5 to 10 minutes. Im thinking about 20 to 30.

Also Im not asking for mmore profits for miners.

Im asking for cheaper ore and higher drop rates, you can even lower total profits if you want.

During my mining on this server I have seen this:

People take about 45 minutes or more to mine enough to fill a Hegemon hold. When they are done with that, the will try to make the trip themselves.

Because its hard to find a trader that will wait long for you to finish, and even harder to find a trader jsut at the moment when you are finished. So, people go by themselves, because the money you get form a full hegemon hold is very god anyway. There is hardly any teamwork.

Then, they get pirated. Its almost unavoidable, unless you knw all pirate names by heart. Kusari is crawiling with pirates, and the only kusari lawful I have ever seen was a noob with a oorp setup and a police iff. Why is it so? Because pirating is so lucrative. Instead of mining 45 minutes, you can get the same stuff in 5 minutes by logging onto your pirate at the right moment.

The miner who got pirated is very very annoyed. Because he just spent 45 minutes shooting rocks and taking brain damage from it. Annoyed people tend to curse and play afk and f1 out more. A lot of pirates have pirate transports so they have no scrupples to demand 50% or more cargo. And they have no scrupples to jsut blow a guy up after 2 lines including a demand, because htey gt even more credits. On top of losing 45 minutes of his life, the miner loses 30+ mil.

How to change it:

Making ore less valuable will:
-make miners less attached to their ore because its worth less. Less annoyance, less f1, running and cursing
-make pirating less lucrative. Count the threads about unbalance between lawfuls and unlawfuls. Count the lawfuls in Kusari, then count the pirates. It would be a good thing

Making drops higher will:
-make miners less attached to their ore, because they spent less time mining it.
-increase hawler/miner teamwork, because Miners will be motivated to stay near the fields more, since their time is now better spent mining instead of hauling. Currently there are more hegemon miners hauling ore than other ships doing it.

Furthermore, I dont see anyone hiring basalt miners in Pennsylvania anymore. That was actually a nice thing that helped noobs learn that cooperation with more experienced players (large haulers) is far more lucrative than pewpewing the first guy you see. And while they were mining for you, you could teach them a lot of things about the game and RP.


Cannon, if you say I dont consider that, please, consider what I wrote.

[bobby]

Silence.
You've been here for what? Two months? You've got alot to learn kiddo.

You haven't seen half the nerfs that have come through here.

I'm not QQing about the fixes or anything of that type, I'm Raeging at the amount of fail the devs have for doing such moronic things.

lol you fail i
ve been here longr than teo mothns i just didn't havve this account xD

[Thommy]

Everyone

please please please

stay on topic.

Don't post stuff like "lol I've been here longer than you so you don't know"
Don't post stuff like "lol you fail"

Mods, can you delete the stuff that has nothing to do with mining balancing?

I'm trying to have a constructive discussion here.