For an anti fighter or bomber weapon, i'd give cruisers a weapon that is similar to the modern-day AA guns- Four barrels firing spitfire into the air at an incredible pace. Damage low, but enough to warn off bombers and fighters before they get in range, and defend larger craft.
A million dollars isn't cool. You know what is cool? A basilisk.
' Wrote:For an anti fighter or bomber weapon, i'd give cruisers a weapon that is similar to the modern-day AA guns- Four barrels firing spitfire into the air at an incredible pace. Damage low, but enough to warn off bombers and fighters before they get in range, and defend larger craft.
Doesn't anything with a ridiculous refire rate cause ridiculous lag? Or maybe that's just what I've picked up from my end =/
We could just give the current cruisers a solaris buff?
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' Wrote:=As For Secondaries=
Compared to primaries, secondaries are faster, go further, and have a better refire rate. But not as much as damage, so it's easier to hit snub craft. Some use the primaries and secondaries in unison, as it does create some kind of basic chainfire, against gunboats/cruisers this works pretty well. It DOES work better for fighters/bombers, though still hard to hit.
=Escorts=
Are a joke, and a lie.
The only escorts that can actually make a bomber stop hitting it's target would be players with high aiming/accuracy to damage the bomber while it evades and charges itself for another SNAC shot.
Secondary turrets do terrific good work against bigger bombers and fighters - like challengers and templars, I guess if they receive more dmg buff and more energy usage of course they will be used much.
I played with Primaries/secondaries combo on Ku BS- they work.
Escorts are not a joke really- but the battleship must have at least 4 to 6 solaris/secondary turrets-with a good management in group fight- clear targeting, covering the guy who is targeted by enemies by Battleship defence turrets and concentrating the fire,keeping the enemy bombers closer to the battleship defence platforms escorts do awesome job.Bombers are screwed indeed if the battleship pilot is good with the defence turrets they die when they come in 1k range if they stay away the battleship shield regeneration and missed snacs do the deal, escort fighters slowly but secure eat the bombers.
' Wrote:I wonder if you actually ever had useful escorts. There are 2 types of those
2. gunboats
- GB missiles and pulses also drain energy from bombers
Gunboat with 2 missile turrets,subtatgeting,bot/bats feeding and shield-running near the battleship can kill several bombers in short time.
' Wrote:Capital ships have never been balanced. For example: Rheinland BS comes to Texas and ragedestroys 2 Dreadnaughts.
You have no idea about it. The RM BS is the biggest BS in game- if two equal good pilots fight each other- LN Dread vs RM BS.The dread will win 90% of the time. It can simply pulse/motar the RM ship from distance eviding enemy motars. In freelancer small= better.
When we speak about balance we must aways keep in mind that there are two important things when we speak about balance
1st We should assume that all players are equal good. Buff ship X because player X killed me because my skills are poor is irrelevant. As I said to the Lobster Lord in the other topic- I still don't believe you that 15 ships wasn't able to beat 3 bombers- it is 5 vs 1 ratio is is ridiculous.There is only one reason this to happen- this 15 pilots were with very poor skills- so you cannot judge from one situation as this the whole balance thing.
2nd It is not fair Single Battleship to be able to kill more then 3 bombers alone if all 4 players have the same skills. It is called sportsmanship. Always keep this in mind.
So if you lack of skills go to train in the game not in the forums.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
Quote:Gunboat with 2 missile turrets,subtatgeting,bot/bats feeding and shield-running near the battleship can kill several bombers in short time.
Unfortunately, missiles are quite easy to avoid and pulses are hard to hit bombers with, unless you're at point-blank range or have quite a good aim... Not to mention both are killers to your energy meter.
Quote:1st We should assume that all players are equal good. Buff ship X because player X killed me because my skills are poor is irrelevant. As I said to the Lobster Lord in the other topic- I still don't believe you that 15 ships wasn't able to beat 3 bombers- it is 5 vs 1 ratio is is ridiculous.There is only one reason this to happen- this 15 pilots were with very poor skills- so you cannot judge from one situation as this the whole balance thing.
Let's assume that every player has the same skill level - an average level, not a super-psycho skill level.
Quote:The RM BS is the biggest BS in game
Hmm, I'm sure overall the Kusari (just because of it's fattiness on the side-profile) or the Juggeh could give it a run for it's money.
Really, I don't see what's wrong with caps now. I've seen some great cap battles in the past, some of them involving 4 bombers failing to take down a light battleship, some of them watching 2 bombers rip apart a battleship in no time... It is really all down to skill level. I'm sure if all the players are about even, then you could experience some pretty fun yet even battles.
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"So if you lack of skills go to train in the game not in the forums."
is not the answer to everything, you know - and pointing fingers saying "you lack the skill" isn t helping much.
a few corrections: - the rheinland battleship is around the 3rd largest in the game ( nomad battleship and zoner juggernaut being larger )
about the skill
there is something called a learning curve. - for bombers that learning curve is rather swallow. you achive very very good results in very little time and practice. that is - cause aiming a SN is relativly easy, especially when shooting large and slow targets.
the learning curve for capital ships is steeper, cause your weapons do not automaticly come with an edge - and you re aiming at much harder targets ( small and fast ) - and while it is true that small and fast is compensated with "fragile" - almost every freelancer pilot will agree that small and fast beats large and slow with heavy armour any time.
try it - fly a voidrunner and you will survive against 10 fighters ( or 10 battleships ) all day long if you focus on avoiding taking damage alone.
fly a ( heavy ) battleship and you will die against 10 bombers no matter what you do.
truth is - a perfect battleship pilot may put up a hell of a fight vs. a swarm of bombers.
but i do believe that a swarm of ace bombers will eat an ace battleship for breakfast - and may not even have used a single bat / bot during the whole encounter ( we re speaking of aces )
so - equal skill levels do not apply i believe. - the battleship may have an edge in the very low skill levels though, cause low skilled bomber pilots lack the ability to use the dodge and line up SN quickly. but that doesn t take much practice.
i bet you 100 million that - if you fly a juggernaut/nomad battleship/rheinland battleship - no matter what you do, you will not survive 3-4 ace bombers, no matter what skills you have, and you may even pick 2 escorts if you like ( which is pure luxory ) - but i bet you will go down
I have a 2.5 armored Big Dragon Transport that I recall dueling against a GC bomber once. I brought it down to 0 bots with half-hull left before I died.
If I had just one single Fighter escort with me that bomber would have been dead.
I use those 1.0 Turret Guns. They seem to work against Fighters and Bombers alike with a little bit of luck and practice in aiming. You can't always hope to hit, but if you hit a full blast that Fighter will die instantly and that bomber will run out of bots, pretty damn fast.
So I don't know what you guys are talking about.
Jinx, if Battleships were really battleships they wouldn't work on a server with 200 limit players. If a battleship would be seen as -The- Liberty Navy Dreadnought, that acted as a flagship, which had tremendous amount of power... a "check-mate" move. Then, skill would be a lot more relevant versus 10 bombers as you put it.
Now, since everyone and their mother can buy a Battleship, it will be balanced accordingly.
The problem is the SNAC. A flawed concept from the start. It needs to be majorly nerfed or removed.
Go back to the basics and work on a torpedo that works much like starlancer bombers.
For those who didn't play starlancer...
Bombers there were relatively slow ships that could fire torpedo from a far range. The torpedo were strong enough to do huge damage if it hit (crippling a ship) but they moved slowly.
Give them very high tracking so they can track to the target easily.
Now the theory here, is that a Battleship alone would be fodder for these torpedo, but as soon as the BB has an escort, the escort can easily destroy the slow moving torpedo before they get near the Battleship.
Also, the number of torpedoes would require balancing per bomber.
Iâll carry this flag
To the grave if I must
Because itâs flag that I love
And a flag that I trust
Why oh why do people complain that Battleships (Heavy or Lighter ones, doesn't matter) can't take out Bombers/Fighters?
They are called "Battleships" for a reason people, they are meant to destroy big things, and not eat up little bombers and fighters. Bombers have one purpose here, to take down big ships, a.k.a. Battleships.
From my point of view, everything is balanced. The main problem I believe is (and the main reason for these kinds of discussions) that people who own Battleships, want to be able to do very good against all types of ships, in a conflict.
Well that can't work, we have ship classes for a reason. Each class has its own role, so do Battleships. And that role is not blasting away smaller ships. This is why I really don't believe that there needs to be a change in them.
the point of a competitive game is that there is a chance to win - unless the setup is just too far off ( like light fighter vs. battleship ... but then both can easily part with a draw )
the problem with the bombers is that they do not only do the anti-battleship duty, but they also do the anti-transport, anti-gunboat, anti-cruiser, anti-other bomber and anti-VHF ( however that means you gotto be lucky or quite higher skilled than the fighter )
you say battleships are "meant" to fight only other capital ships.... now i do wonder what makes you think that. as it sounds much like your own view of things. but you believe that it applies to everyone.
the idea of a battleship is that it can do everything the fighter can do - but bigger and better. that is why it is piloted by a crew of hundreds compared to 1, that is why it costs 700 million and not 3 million.
battleships don t want to be good at fighting everything. - they want to have a chance not dieing to everything but other battleships.
and while you probably have a good retort on the tip of your tongue... battleships are underpowered in terms of flexibility - when the idea of building a HUGE platform for dozens of weapons is probably not to become less flexible than a tiny platform with few weapons. - however that is only my opinion.
i believe that battleships are really best balanced and put into a proper setting along with other ships of other classes in games like freespace 2 and homeworld ( not sword of the stars or sins of a solar empire, where they only play a very insignificant role )
capital warships there justify the high price and make me believe that its WORTH manning them with hundreds of people compared to squadrons of fighters.
and battleships ( of for that matter - battlecruisers in homeworld 2 ) are ALSO meant to fight other capitals.
and i do know that applying homeworld 2 balance to freelancer is nither possible nor fair - but it just shows you how a ship balance can make one believe in the resource costs and size/power.
in homeworld 2 - a fighter can always escape from a battleship - or attempt to take down the subsystems ( which small squadrons can do ) - but if a pure bomberforce tries to actually DESTROY a capital warship, it takes a huge amount and a great deal of them will die trying.
edit:
to put it very simple and clear...
in no other combat ship i have ever felt THAT helpless like in a battleship. ( in certain situations ) - in a fighter, i am always in 100% of all cases aware that i can pull it off - that i am still in control of things - and when i get blown up, i have had a chance to turn it, no matter the skill of the other person.
( no need to mention transports - as they are no combat ships... )
bombers are similar, i am always in control of things, - when i get jumped by 20 light fighters - i m simply overwhelmed - its a fair match ( subjective )
but in a battleship - some situations create a feeling of "frustration", you aim, you fire - the bombers shield run and take turns - yay, its a great and legal tactic alright, but you, the battleship are not under control of the situation anymore, you only RE-act... you can run, but you cannot win anymore. its like seeing your shield/hitpoints go down - slowly but steadily - and you just thinking "oh, well.... lets call it a day - and get a coffee"
what if instead of making Nanobots heal a fix number of your hull, we made them heal a percentage of your hull instead. Then we give every single ship in the game the same number of nanobots...
Some of the posts in this thread reminded me of this. Thought I'd mention it.
![[Image: kaos-cats13.gif]](http://www.anikaos.com/0013-cats/kaos-cats13.gif)
![[Image: just_a_signature_by_sjrarj-d63yjsx.png]](https://img00.deviantart.net/ca73/i/2013/123/e/a/just_a_signature_by_sjrarj-d63yjsx.png)
![[Image: SLRU.png]](http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/Nighthawkashes/SLRU.png)