' Wrote:The problem is the SNAC. A flawed concept from the start. It needs to be majorly nerfed or removed.
' Wrote:If armor is the case and noone wants to buff cap armor, can't we simply cut fighter/bomber armor or increase the cargo taken by armor upgrades so only the heavy bombers or freighters can mount the universal ones?
Leave the bombers alone, they already suck too much. And fighters c'mon, they are the primary ships on Freelancer. They are good as they are.
Make every capship to SRP only (like the rogue/molly destroyer and a Spyglass) then we can talk about capship buff. But till 60% of the capships go "sry no englisch, engagin))" or throw in 2 auto-setences and rush into a fighter fight with a solaris cruiser/battleship, capships are okay.
And about being underpowered. Why do you make huge Battleships which can hardly move? Make every Battleship small and agile as an Osiris make every cruiser like the current KNF cruiser and every gunboat like the OC/BHG gunship, and there you go, Ofc with little differences between stats and with other textures/looks.
And simply train with your ships. Its not like "ok I bought a BS with cap8 for 1,7 billion, now I deserve to kill everything on the server lol". its not that easy. We (fighter and bomber pilots) must train a lot to become good, without traning we would die in minutes to a capship.
Tic Curios ect can kill hordes of fighters/bombers in their Osirises, and EagleEye can win vs 3-4 very skilled fighters in his OC/BHG gunship. Why? Because they simply took the time to train with their ships and got better with them. And dont say "we are not talking about individual skills" because all you need is traning and what I wrote above.
And after you done these things, you'll also see that bombers are underpowered. If you dont take the time to train and a bomber kills you coz of your joust it will look overpowered, but if you take a few weeks traning you will see that the bomber can hardly take down your shield.
no, because this is meant to be a DISCUSSION. Adding useless +1 posts is detrimental to that.
But since you asked, poltergeist, the point of the no-english fellows is moot, as balancing for fools is a foolhardy move in and of itself. Bombers can regen 2-3 times, fighters can around 5, and battleships... once. Now consider that the bombers are the SAME SIZE as fighters with 50% more armor, bots/bats, and a weapon that cannot be blocked.
Battleship captains are NOT asking to be the king of the battlefeild, we are asking to stand a chance, which in rp, we SHOULD. Just becuase the heavy battleship role is to destroy ohter battleships, that does NOT mean that the houses would leave their ships defenceless against bombers and other smaller craft.
Those of us who RP battleships merely want to have a fair and BALANCED chance, instead of now where unless the bomber closes to 600 meters to shoot its guns, they are untouchable.
So some people here want to buff capships? And then others say, well we can't because too many lolwuts fly capships?
But why don't we fix it there? Personally, I think it's simply too easy to get a battleship. Just a few weeks of trading and you've got one. Now I admit it's not nothing. But wouldn't it be more assumable that it takes YEARS to construct a battleship? And quite a lot of money for that part. Now a battleship DOES cost a lot of money, I think it's more the problem that players can just captain a huge transport too easily as well. Personally, I think we all make money just too easily. I think it would improve disco greatly, If a faction would have to trade very long to buy a battleship. For example, you'd have to trade a month with HALF the faction if you want it to have a Battleship. That way, we'll see much fewer battleships with lolwut captains. And fewer battleships in general actually. And THEN there is also room for battleship buffs. Because I agree that ships of such size should be able to do a lot more.
' Wrote:Bombers there were relatively slow ships that could fire torpedo from a far range. The torpedo were strong enough to do huge damage if it hit (crippling a ship) but they moved slowly.
Give them very high tracking so they can track to the target easily.
Now the theory here, is that a Battleship alone would be fodder for these torpedo, but as soon as the BB has an escort, the escort can easily destroy the slow moving torpedo before they get near the Battleship.
Also, the number of torpedoes would require balancing per bomber.
This solution makes the most sense to me.
Bombers are way too agile for escorts to really threaten. BUT if you made them less agile and didn't modify the weaponry, cap ships would eat them alive.
I would also put bomber speed in the 190-195 range so they can't do a circular kite-fest around the cap ship dragging a comet tail of escorts. Instead they would want to pull in close to a GB to shoo off the flies.
With this solution you could even boost the snac and it would be a kind of suicide run option where if you manage to get in close enough to use it (read: battleship is distracted by other attackers) it's devastating but if the battleship's shooting at you you'll likely get fried before you can line it up.
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I would look into non-cd missile speeds too. IMHO 210-250m/s makes more sense to me. Maybe with a slow reload.
You're paying per shot, have limited ammo capacity, a higher monetary death risk and you get: a slight damage boost if the opponent wants to joust... meh.
Restrict cap ships, more people for escorts, more bombers being hunted. The weapons, shields, hull? I think they are balanced. Now the number of ships and class in a battle? That's what needs to be balanced.
Yes, 3 bombers against a 4 dreads with primaries and what else can make it go boom.
3 bombers against a dread and 3 escorts? Not so much.
All depends on experience.
And it is experience in a battle that determines the winner i think.
Bombers have been nerfed with the bomber cannons. As an example of an odd power curve, the BHG Bomber can't even fire more than 3 bomber cannons (even though it has slots for 5) and maintain enough power to fire the SNAC. Before with the class 9 and 10 weapon slots available, you could get lower power guns and actually stand up to some fighters.
So now we take that ship up against it's opponent, the cap ship. You've your SNAC, so you have to run in, aim, fire, and then run while you recharge. Again, two or three bombers working in concert can and will take down a cap - it takes a while, though.
Regarding the comment about barges - when a dev says that a ship is considered a joke, you're in trouble. Players put the time and energy into gathering the credits to buy one of these things so that they can role-play with them, and to use them in game. What is a joke is when the player base isn't respected that way.
And I saw and was part of a barge combat on the defending side - barge had a Cap VIII armor, there were a huge amount of defenders, and the 4 bombers still simply stayed on target and blew the ship up at the loss of one attacking bomber.
Why is this relevant to cap ships? Because the SAME thing applies to battleships and you'll have the same result - escorts against a multiple bomber attack are useless. Even taking into consideration the differences between the Mako and the Osiris, the caps end up being irrelevant to the battles we used to stage in Lost. If a battle was restricted to caps only - then the battleships came into their own, standing off at 2 or 3K, shooting at each other.
But throw two or 3 bombers in on either (or both) sides, and it was quickly a case of which side would run out of caps first so that the bombers would end up shooting at each other. And even with a mixed force - 2 battleships, 3 bombers, and 3 fighters or gunboats per side - the defending fighters can't kill the bombers fast enough to protect the battleships.
So if you're going to say that escorts are a viable option for a battleship, then it has to live long enough for the escorts to do their job. The quickest and easiest answer I've seen for that is a simple one - increase the number of bots and bats available to a cap ship. It doesn't matter what the cap ship is, it seems. My Orca has 350 bats - it doesn't matter whether I have no armor or Cap IV on it, I hit the bat button, and I'm out of bats. Same thing with my Mako, LN Cruiser, or Geb - I hit the bat button because I'm about to die, and I'm out of bats.
So here's a new meme for Cam instead of Fix Cruise. Increase bots and bats.
(What's really sad is how much empirical evidence I gathered when I did my Happy Admin Day event for this back in April. The Venator lasted about 5 minutes against a combined fleet. The Sea Serpent lasted for the whole hour, and wouldn't have died then if I hadn't of lagged. They both had Cap VIII armor and battleship shields - just the Sea Serpent is a MUCH smaller and more manuverable target - like the guys said earlier, Voidrunner against 10 regular ships is a nightmare.)
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
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