' Wrote:Yeah, I'll agree it's shaky. Suppose that the Alliance didn't much care, the higher ups weren't paying attention (they did have bigger problems, after all), or France was really good about making it look like they were building their fleet back up. As for the Coalition not noticing, what's to say they didn't? If they constructed it behind the lines, it would be guarded by the remaining Alliance fleet even if the rest of the Alliance had no idea. Still, yes, it's shaky. If they held off on the bigger parts of it until after the first five sleeper ships went off, then it fits a little better, though.
There is no such thing as "behind the lines" in the space :-).
More serious: it means that it was the France who have betrayed the Alliance, not the other way round. So the Houses owe those cheese eating surrender monkeys a heavy pounding. I'm strating to like it.
' Wrote:The Second Gallic War, however, has been mostly fought on land, in some cases with little more than rocks and mining equipmnt. The Gallic Army and the people of Marne (and Quillan) have taken the brunt of it, with space battles of consequence being few and far between for the majority of the war.
That implies devastation of infrastructure on the planets. Decreasing population. Screwing demographic structure. And every other effect of a war waging at home.
I hope that means Gallia is more a colossus on clay legs than a war machine.
I'm still not convinced enough but it's not wise to throw judgement before the release of 4.86.
Feel free to PM me regarding any grammar/spelling/other language mistakes I have made in my posts.
' Wrote:Well, just reading this storyline.
I strongly think you should change it to something more believable.
Because of:
1. Gallia starting a war over something that happened over 800 years ago.
That's just what they're propaganda says. The leaders actually just want to conquer everyone- remember, in FL, everyone lies to everyone else, even the "good guys"... if there are any.
Quote:2.They've managed to build a massive fleet, despite not being at war with anyone for hundreds of years (rebels don't count).
I fail to see how not fighting wars keeps you from stockpiling warships. Rather the opposite, actually, if you fight for too long you run out of them. In vanilla, Rheinland had an absurdly huge fleet when the 80-Years War started, and they were under the impression they would never need to fight a war. Gallia knew ahead of time, you think it would be more reasonable for them to just put it off and hope no one finds them?
Quote:3.They've no real combat experience, yet can steamroll through everyone with ease.
They've fought a pair of civil wars, have vastly more ships, and everyone else is badly battered from the Nomad War and more recent conflicts. Bretonia, for instance, is simply running out of ships. Not to mention that the other houses vastly underestimated their capabilities- for much the same reasons you do.
Quote:4. Gallia was a failure to begin with.
I'm sorry you think that way, but that's not really a valid argument. The GRN| are quite active, and it's a rare day they don't interact with people and come back with awesome stories. I must flatly disagree here.
Quote:I was seriously trying hard not to laugh when reading that storyline, it really was that ridiculous.
Also, I think the whole Kusari regime change thing was an all too convienient excuse to keep Kusari out of a war with Gallia.
It was more than convenient. Kusari doesn't want to fight its third war in two decades, especially with no real gain. The old regime was too proud, so a new one came up and signed peace. Ever heard of the Bolshevik revolution?
Besides, what's to say they won't enter the war later?
Quote:It also is hugely obvious you are using this as a way to populate Gallia, that plan didn't work with Kusari and it won't work with Gallia.
It's been writing on the wall for a year. Anyone who didn't see this coming was plugging their ears and going "lalalalalala" (unfortunately, that seems to describe a few people here quite well). Plus, Leeds (where the war is) is actually rather active, I've been in quite a number of fleet battles there.
Quote:I'm going to quote the above sentence 6 months after the release of 4.86 just to say I told you so
And also why is Bretonia getting beat YET again.
Bretonia could sue for peace like Kusari did, but they're too proud. Hell, "yet again" is a bit unfair... Kusari got totally owned in the Nomad War, while Bretonia was barely touched. Besides, even just holding their own against the Royal Navy is a feat of heroism- given their bad luck, they're being pretty awesome. This isn't "everything is the same for everyone"lancer, if nothing bad ever happened it would be boring. 4.86 is a lot darker than previous versions... lots of people will die, and not every faction will stand strong.
Quote:Don't get me wrong, I repect what Igiss and the dev team do, but you really dropped the ball with this one.
Pardon me when I don't believe you. It rather looks like you're saying "this is stupid and you all suck". Your emotional response is noted. If you wish to discuss the logic, please take more than a moment to think about the political factors involved... there is a lot more going on than meets the eye.
' Wrote:That's just what they're propaganda says. The leaders actually just want to conquer everyone- remember, in FL, everyone lies to everyone else, even the "good guys"... if there are any.
I fail to see how not fighting wars keeps you from stockpiling warships. Rather the opposite, actually, if you fight for too long you run out of them. In vanilla, Rheinland had an absurdly huge fleet when the 80-Years War started, and they were under the impression they would never need to fight a war. Gallia knew ahead of time, you think it would be more reasonable for them to just put it off and hope no one finds them?
They've fought a pair of civil wars, have vastly more ships, and everyone else is badly battered from the Nomad War and more recent conflicts. Bretonia, for instance, is simply running out of ships. Not to mention that the other houses vastly underestimated their capabilities- for much the same reasons you do.
I'm sorry you think that way, but that's not really a valid argument. The GRN| are quite active, and it's a rare day they don't interact with people and come back with awesome stories. I must flatly disagree here.
It was more than convenient. Kusari doesn't want to fight its third war in two decades, especially with no real gain. The old regime was too proud, so a new one came up and signed peace. Ever heard of the Bolshevik revolution?
Besides, what's to say they won't enter the war later?
It's been writing on the wall for a year. Anyone who didn't see this coming was plugging their ears and going "lalalalalala" (unfortunately, that seems to describe a few people here quite well). Plus, Leeds (where the war is) is actually rather active, I've been in quite a number of fleet battles there.
Bretonia could sue for peace like Kusari did, but they're too proud. Hell, "yet again" is a bit unfair... Kusari got totally owned in the Nomad War, while Bretonia was barely touched. Besides, even just holding their own against the Royal Navy is a feat of heroism- given their bad luck, they're being pretty awesome. This isn't "everything is the same for everyone"lancer, if nothing bad ever happened it would be boring. 4.86 is a lot darker than previous versions... lots of people will die, and not every faction will stand strong.
Pardon me when I don't believe you. It rather looks like you're saying "this is stupid and you all suck". Your emotional response is noted. If you wish to discuss the logic, please take more than a moment to think about the political factors involved... there is a lot more going on than meets the eye.
I second everything here..I remember hearing about what if this and that before 4.85 was even released(Before post of the new members were even on the forums, which could relate to why they didn't see this coming and think of this as a tragedy), including the war with Gallia vs Sirius.
Maquis|Leon.LaBreau-If your interested in joining the Maquis PM me. [RM]Of.Viktor.Niklovach[RoS]GhostFace[E]David.DeWester[101st] Order|Ens.Adam.Jones[C]Jean.Claude.Moreau Kruger Security-Johann Von Struger]bd[Akio.Kimura
[quote name='Sovereign' date='Sep 3 2010, 02:09 AM' post='1135379']
That's just what they're propaganda says. The leaders actually just want to conquer everyone- remember, in FL, everyone lies to everyone else, even the "good guys"... if there are any[/quote]
Well, propaganda or not that's just ridiculous.
Ok so they want to conquer everyone, yet they sign a peace treaty with Kusari.
See what I mean about a daft storyline?
[quote name='Sovereign' date='Sep 3 2010, 02:09 AM' post='1135379']
I fail to see how not fighting wars keeps you from stockpiling warships. Rather the opposite, actually, if you fight for too long you run out of them. In vanilla, Rheinland had an absurdly huge fleet when the 80-Years War started, and they were under the impression they would never need to fight a war.Gallia knew ahead of time, you think it would be more reasonable for them to just put it off and hope no one finds them?/quote]
Nope, wrong answer.
A nation doesn't do a massive bulid up of the military, when they are at peace. Rather the opposite.
The fact that Rhienland had a large fleet at the start of the 80 year war is because they were surrounded by potential enemies. But Gallia was isolated and no one else was aware of their existence.
[quote name='Sovereign' date='Sep 3 2010, 02:09 AM' post='1135379']
They've fought a pair of civil wars, have vastly more ships, and everyone else is badly battered from the Nomad War and more recent conflicts. Bretonia, for instance, is simply running out of ships. Not to mention that the other houses vastly underestimated their capabilities- for much the same reasons you do.[/quote]
I'll state again, having a conflict with a relatively small group of rebels does not count.
They have never faced a professional military force. Bretonia on the on the other hand has plentiful combat experience with a professional military force. It has been proven time and time again through out history, that a small experienced professional force will defeat a larger inexperienced force.
[quote name='Sovereign' date='Sep 3 2010, 02:09 AM' post='1135379']
I'm sorry you think that way, but that's not really a valid argument. The GRN| are quite active, and it's a rare day they don't interact with people and come back with awesome stories. I must flatly disagree here.[/quote]
Oh, but it is a valid argument. Because this whole storyline is based around Gallia and the whole Gallia remaining undetected for hundreds of years, and then just appearing out of the blue was absurd to say the least. Also I'm not the only person who thinks Gallia was a complete failure. So I disagree with you here.
[quote name='Sovereign' date='Sep 3 2010, 02:09 AM' post='1135379']
It was more than convenient. Kusari doesn't want to fight its third war in two decades, especially with no real gain. The old regime was too proud, so a new one came up and signed peace. Ever heard of the Bolshevik revolution?[/quote]
No, what I was saying is, the dev team already decided they wanted to keep Kusari out of it because they just wanted Bretonia to get a good kicking again. So I bet the conversation about it went somewhat like this: " Hey guys how do we keep Kusari out the war? Because Kusari wouldn't just sit back and let Gallia invade the Tau systems. Oh! I know we'll just say there was a regime change! Yeah that'll work"
[quote name='Sovereign' date='Sep 3 2010, 02:09 AM' post='1135379']Besides, what's to say they won't enter the war later?[/quote]
Because they won't, the dev team's already decided that they want just Bretonia to get all the flak. For the reason I stated just before. I'll tell you what I'll bet you 2 months of my wages that they don't enter the war at a later stage.
[quote name='Sovereign' date='Sep 3 2010, 02:09 AM' post='1135379']
It's been writing on the wall for a year. Anyone who didn't see this coming was plugging their ears and going "lalalalalala" (unfortunately, that seems to describe a few people here quite well). Plus, Leeds (where the war is) is actually rather active, I've been in quite a number of fleet battles there.[/quote]
Yes, I know it was. But my point still stands, it's the same plan used for Kusari and that didn't work out to well did it? So why's it going to work this time? Yes you've seen fleet battles in LEEDS but Kusari it self is still empty.
[quote name='Sovereign' date='Sep 3 2010, 02:09 AM' post='1135379']
Bretonia could sue for peace like Kusari did, but they're too proud. Hell, "yet again" is a bit unfair... Kusari got totally owned in the Nomad War, while Bretonia was barely touched. Besides, even just holding their own against the Royal Navy is a feat of heroism- given their bad luck, they're being pretty awesome. This isn't "everything is the same for everyone"lancer, if nothing bad ever happened it would be boring. 4.86 is a lot darker than previous versions... lots of people will die, and not every faction will stand strong.[/quote]
Yes it's unfair, it's unfair on Bretonia.
The dev team had Bretonia getting beat constanly by Kusari and also they had Bretonia not winning a SINGLE battle against Kusari. And now Bretonia get's it all again the very next mod version.
Answer me this: Why not Kusari?
They are also too proud to sue for peace, Seeing as Kusari likes to go on about honour and all that, suing for peace would be a very dishonorable thing to do wouldn't it? No matter who's in charge there.
If anything it should be a Bretonain-Kusari alliance fighting Gallia. Ever heard of Italy switching sides and joining the allies during world war 2? Which was also because of a regime change.
[quote name='Sovereign' date='Sep 3 2010, 02:09 AM' post='1135379']
Pardon me when I don't believe you. It rather looks like you're saying "this is stupid and you all suck". Your emotional response is noted. If you wish to discuss the logic, please take more than a moment to think about the political factors involved... there is a lot more going on than meets the eye.
[/quote]
Well, I really don't care if you think I'm lying, seeing as I'm not out to win your approval anyway.
The storyline has plotholes that big that the titanic could get through them, and parts contradicting other parts.
[quote name='Sovereign' date='Sep 3 2010, 02:09 AM' post='1135379']
I fail to see how not fighting wars keeps you from stockpiling warships. Rather the opposite, actually, if you fight for too long you run out of them. In vanilla, Rheinland had an absurdly huge fleet when the 80-Years War started, and they were under the impression they would never need to fight a war.Gallia knew ahead of time, you think it would be more reasonable for them to just put it off and hope no one finds them?/quote]
Quote:Nope, wrong answer.
A nation doesn't do a massive bulid up of the military, when they are at peace. Rather the opposite.
The fact that Rhienland had a large fleet at the start of the 80 year war is because they were surrounded by potential enemies. But Gallia was isolated and no one else was aware of their existence.
I would agree to you up to a certain point, yes most nations don't stockpile when in peace, a waste of money. But in otherwords this is mobilization...a preemptive manufacturing spree before a unavoidable war. Gallia was intentionally left behind, you don't think that they wouldn't hold a grudge to everyone else because they wanted them to disappear?
[quote name='Sovereign' date='Sep 3 2010, 02:09 AM' post='1135379']
They've fought a pair of civil wars, have vastly more ships, and everyone else is badly battered from the Nomad War and more recent conflicts. Bretonia, for instance, is simply running out of ships. Not to mention that the other houses vastly underestimated their capabilities- for much the same reasons you do.[/quote]
Quote:I'll state again, having a conflict with a relatively small group of rebels does not count.
They have never faced a professional military force. Bretonia on the on the other hand has plentiful combat experience with a professional military force. It has been proven time and time again through out history, that a small experienced professional force will defeat a larger inexperienced force.
The council aren't relatively small, the Maquis, Brigaids etc are small, but the Council is quite a rather large force. Yes not as large as a nation but they can hold their own. If you think this is false, explain to me who they were able to organize control systems, and construct a fleet.
Maquis|Leon.LaBreau-If your interested in joining the Maquis PM me. [RM]Of.Viktor.Niklovach[RoS]GhostFace[E]David.DeWester[101st] Order|Ens.Adam.Jones[C]Jean.Claude.Moreau Kruger Security-Johann Von Struger]bd[Akio.Kimura
' Wrote:The council aren't relatively small, the Maquis, Brigaids etc are small, but the Council is quite a rather large force. Yes not as large as a nation but they can hold their own. If you think this is false, explain to me who they were able to organize control systems, and construct a fleet.
The council are still not a professional military force, the Gallic royal navy just steamrolls them with ease in this storyline. Which just proves that they can't hold control over a system. They just aren't a formidable enough force and if anyone thinks that they are, they are in denial
But the two biggest flaws I see with this storyline are:
1. Gallia wanting to invade everyone, yet they sign a peace treaty with Kusari.
2. Kusari not being in the war because of the above peace treaty and the "regime change" that just seems tacked on as an afterthought to justify it.
To make this storyline gain any semblance of credibility, then Kusari also needs to be at war with Gallia. It just invalidates the whole thing otherwise.
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