Opening the Nomad faction up will not solve the activity issue some of you are claiming there is. You know why? People will only get their nomnom ship for the pew pew. They will log on in groups when they know they can gank someone and only stay on as long as they have a PvP advantage.
I honestly don't understand some of you - the only logical thing I can think of to explain some of you is that you are kids. That isn't me trying to put you down - its me saying that some of you make absolutely no stinking sense and have no idea what you're talking about.
PvP combat is role play. The role play of the Nomads is that they are anti-human. To the point they kill humans. That would dictate that they pew pew any human they see. The player faction has evolved that role play so that every encounter doesn't boil down to PvP - but as it is the core of their lore most encounters do. Basically some of you have no frickin idea about Nomad lore and think that because every Nomad you've seen has shot you; they must be bad people. Wrong. They are playing their part. Personally I don't want them being super active - they have a terrorist ID.
Then there was the guy asking if the nomads could function with a self defense only clause in their ID. Really? Have you even read the lore? Did you play single player?
Now I've seen the good and the bad the K'Hara faction has to offer. I'm speaking from years of playing here and running into them regularly. I've been shot with one line of role play while interacting with another player. Did it suck? Yar. Did it make sense in role play? Looking back yes. I've had my zoner whale blown up by a Marduk. Did it suck? Nope. I knew they were in 49 and I jumped in anyways just to see what they were doing. I blew up very quickly and me and Styg laughed about it on Skype. I've had them protect my GMS miner. I've had them escort my GMS miner through Gallia - my miner thinking an avatar of his god was protecting him; when in truth the nomad was just scouting the system for the Share (I think.).
The real issue here (and I am guilty of it too) is that many of you don't fully understand role play. You go into an encounter expecting it to pan out one way and then complain when it doesn't. Role play is dynamic. By expecting each and every encounter with a nomad to end in PvP - you go into said encounter with an attitude that causes the encounter to end in PvP. If you go into it without expectations - you aren't upset when it doesn't go your way - its just role play.
Janurary, Feburary, March. Closed in Jan. They said check back in a couple of months. Guess what March is? Yep. Coulpe of months. If you're seriously interested, PM one of the leaders. Doesn't hurt to nudge them regarding that annoucement though.
also I really see the lack of activity as the only problem K'Hara has.
no I do not wanna play a nomad character, way too busy with other stuff,
but I'd love to meet some , where are you fuzzy blue friends wheeeeereeeee*echo's*
Janurary, Feburary, March. Closed in Jan. They said check back in a couple of months. Guess what March is? Yep. Coulpe of months. If you're seriously interested, PM one of the leaders. Doesn't hurt to nudge them regarding that annoucement though.
Friday, friday...
I was merely pointing out that obstacles such as closed recruitment are enough to discourage even the not-so-lazy people from trying to join.
I have no desire to join the Nomad faction, I speak as a player who would like to see more of them and expect to be shot at.
As for ganking issue the same applies for any faction that focus on PvP which is like most of them (I joined the GMS for PvP too). I don't think this would cause any more grief then Hessians, Outcasts, BAF and others.
The open Nomad ID wouldn't need to be necessarily a full terrorist one either.
Oh of couse an open Nomad ID would be more limiting than the Keeper ID. Ala the SCRA.
The real issue is simple - the admins don't seem to want it to be open. Another issue - which may be part of the admins reasoning is this:
Take a look at this thread - look at who wants the nomad faction to be opened up. Notice how they have little to no knowledge of nomad lore? Yea - that would be an issue if they decided to play a nomad. Nomad RP is some of the most difficult to grasp. Hence why they've always been closed and why they have a unique recruitment method.
Opening up the Nomads and then limiting their ZoI and such prevents them from role playing their faction properly. If the faction can't be role played properly by an indy - why have an indy?
I'll be straight with you - the entire reason I've not joined the K'Hara is because I can't stand the mindspeak stuff. It is annoying, but I understand it is core to their role play. I highly highly doubt anyone here barking for an open Nomad would bother with it on their indy nomad. They'd forgo years of role play and player written lore merely to have purple guns to pew pew with.
Again - it is entirely worth noting that John has requested the Nomad faction follow the lead of the SCRA. Admins are the hold up - so quit bashing the K'Hara. Go bash an admin.
Some interesting opinions in this thread, however Megiddo's caught my eye:
' Wrote:This is a bit of hijack, sorry.
The situation with the Nomads on this server is what you get when you have an exclusive faction amongst the common rabble.
Why it had to be exclusive is admittedly a mystery to me but I have my hunches based on life experience and interaction with people in general. So here we go.
Some players come up with an idea for a Nomad player faction. They put a lot of work in creating lore and a backstory for their idea of a Nomad faction. A labor of love that would be guarded somewhat jealously.
In an older mod version (the old timers could confirm this) it wasn't an uncommon sight to see mercenary IDed Nomad BSes roaming about New York and other such nonsense. Well, situations like that were just silly, so Nomad tech was consolidated under the protection of a single Nomad player faction. Nomad ships and gear became rare, adding more mystique to the Nomad faction as a whole. A positive development in Nomad and server RP - at least initially.
However, exclusivity had its drawbacks. Because the Nomad player faction's players were hand-picked and tightly controlled, it was decided that they should have more freedoms than the average player, freedoms that were also justified with canon lore. Thus, Nomads get the equivalent of a terrorist ID.
Nomad players become the target of RP and OORP aggression. They get ganked. They point this problem out to the devs, so ships and gear become adjusted accordingly. They continue to get ganked, the reason being that it is near impossible to beat them with even numbers.
Getting constantly ganked is no fun at all, so the Nomad players aren't terribly keen in logging on with their Nomad characters. End result: Order and BHG Core activity dies off and Nomad Space becomes a zone of soul-numbing boredom.
This is my spin on the current Nomad situation. It isn't inarguably true, but nonetheless I'm pretty sure I'm close to the mark on some issues.
If players are really serious about increasing Nomad activity, some attitudes on all sides have to change.
1.) Opening up the Nomads to all players. That means access to all ships and tech.
2.) Establishing a separate ZoI for indie Nomads, for both snubs and caps. The K'Hara get their ZoI and the regular Nomads get theirs, although ZoIs will overlap in some regions.
3.) Granting the Nomad player faction to establish basic RP guidelines that must be followed by indie Nomad players, i.e. telepathic communication protocols.
4.) RP preceding combat, which is more the norm anyway. I don't think I've ever had a Nomad encounter without being the object of some sort of telepathic communication first.
Megiddo, you are completely correct about the OORP aggression. I'm not saying it isn't deserved sometimes, but when it happens nine times out of the ten you take your character out, well you just get frustrated.
I really can't complain because this game is essentially free to play, but it would be nice if everyone at least attempted to be fair to one another in terms of both PvP and RP encounters. Of course, this can't always be the case because we are all human and Freelancer's game engine is already being pushed well beyond its limits, thus making things like PvP balancing and rule enforcement nearly impossible through the game itself.
However, I do agree that Nomad faction activity (read: Original Keeper faction, K'Hara, and Das Wilde) is on a decline - and a large portion of the blame can be placed on Nomad players becoming frustrated or simply bored with in game player encounters. For example, I do not fly my Wilde characters much anymore because I'm sick of running into players who either try to ignore us or actively hunt us to cause grief.
Anyways, like I said before, I can't complain because Discovery has been an overall fun experience and I've had the pleasure of meeting some very nice people, all at the minimal cost of buying Freelancer.
Perhaps we should first focus on making the server a more enjoyable place for everyone (regardless of faction) before we try opening up the Nomad faction to everyone. I'm sure if everyone treated one another a little more nicely, you would see not only Nomad faction activity go up, but also overall server activity increase.
That, unfortunately, necessitates the question of "How do we accomplish this?"
' Wrote:For example, I do not fly my Wilde characters much anymore because I'm sick of running into players who either try to ignore us or actively hunt us to cause grief.
Sorru but there is not much what you could do with Wilde/Nomad ID except shooting stuff, you could have much more options with freelancer ID for example.
However the point is not in the attitude of the others towards this factions, "gentleman agreements", ganks,hitboxless ships, closed factions, OP ships and guns- what do you expect?
How to treat fair someone that comes to shoot you when you have not even a chance to stand vs him? The point is that the encounter of 8 nom gun scorp without hitbox was not fun for the other side and could not be fun anyway, people play to have fun- so they would avoid the encounter or bring 2 cruisers to get the scrop- this is how the stuff works, you are complaining about it? Well does not overuse OP ships- if you do it for 1-2 years the label stands even if the scorp is not op in 4.86 .
It is not the others who close their recruitment or use OP ships in unfair numbers claiming that others shoot them, many other factions are shot by all of their neighbor factions without having single ally in their ZoI - Xenos, Mollys, Corsairs. You wont find them closed or with OP stuff, you wont find their players acting like "special" ones, it is about attitude after all, if you cannot behave normal towards to the rest of the player base does not expect the others to play ball with your RP, or not to gank you.
I bet that if the said factions wanted they could change everything, it was not really hard to make nom turret red cell in 4.85 for wilde ships- 2 min job for example, sadly you have only "gentleman agreements":lol:so that's why you enjoy the other players "gentleman motivated ganks"
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
' Wrote:Since the nature of the Nomad ID seems to be a significant bone of contention, I pose the question: Does the Nomad ID have to be a defacto terrorist ID?
How detrimental, if at all, would it be to Nomad RP for a Nomad to not have the right to attack without warning? Most of the few encounters I've had with Nomads have had some sort of pre-fight/pre-flight RP.
' Wrote:PvP combat is role play. The role play of the Nomads is that they are anti-human. To the point they kill humans. That would dictate that they pew pew any human they see. The player faction has evolved that role play so that every encounter doesn't boil down to PvP - but as it is the core of their lore most encounters do. Basically some of you have no frickin idea about Nomad lore and think that because every Nomad you've seen has shot you; they must be bad people. Wrong. They are playing their part. Personally I don't want them being super active - they have a terrorist ID.
Then there was the guy asking if the nomads could function with a self defense only clause in their ID. Really? Have you even read the lore? Did you play single player?
' Wrote:Take a look at this thread - look at who wants the nomad faction to be opened up. Notice how they have little to no knowledge of nomad lore? Yea - that would be an issue if they decided to play a nomad. Nomad RP is some of the most difficult to grasp.
I've sort of highlighted the key points from these three posts.
The Wild are going to naturally be able to RP in a more controlled way with humans than Nomads directly are - Wild are still physically human. Nomads are not, nor have they ever been, human. They don't LIKE humans. They were the original inhabitants of Sirius. Imagine that instead of Columbus finding humans living in America he'd found blue blobs that were just as technologically advanced, if not more so, than he was. (I know it's not quite historically accurate, but it's an analogy - play along with me here.) So when you have colonists coming in, instead of being able to overpower the natives, the natives can fight back on equal terms.
So - from a Nomad perspective - and this based upon my K|Hara RP:
Hey, this (Sirius) is OUR home. You humans are the invaders and aliens here. Instead of experiencing the wonders of space with your bodies, you enclose yourself in metal shells, closing yourselves off. You're cockroaches, scurrying from one dark place to another, and we simply can't stomp our feet fast enough to squish all of you. You're spoiling our glorious Sirius, stealing our stuff, and your chatter-chatter hurts us. The only ones who are vaguely interested in working with us are those we've assimilated (the Wild) and those who've expanded their minds through the glory of cardimime. Since the recent event (destruction of Toledo), we've been seperated from each other for the first time in existance, so we're no longer quite of the group mind - now we are individuals. We're not sure if we like that - or I'm not sure if I like that, since I've never been alone before. I'm scared, and it's all the fault of you softskins.
Now do you understand WHY the Nomad ID is effectively a terrorist ID, and why it won't be opened? It's not just a 'you have permission to kill everyone' ID, it's a 'you have a strong base to RP from' ID. I remember last month when I was in New Tokyo RP'ing with about 3 or 4 people on my K|Hara that is was great - we just 'talked' for the longest time - and you CAN do that.
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
' Wrote:If I may make a small re-iteration; the point is that activity is not okay just because you're above the 'x' hour limit. The Nomads are the strongest anti-human faction there is, and not seeing any of them killing anyone is loss of a great storyline.
Just because you're above the line doesn't mean you're active. You're complaining that you get lolganked? If you had more members willing to invest time and money, you'd be able to deal with the Order ganks with more Marduks/Irra.
The ganks are due to your roleplay and tech; find people who don't care about ganks but want a laugh and everybody gets to have fun.
So wait... From official nomad RP suck/its only /l1 /l2 /l3 *pewpew* we skipped to "Nomads dont pewpew enough"..?
And to say "be able to deal with order lolganks" its like saying "Deal with LNS"... We would kinda need half of the server just for that, including new players and said LNS/Order gank for itself.
I am seriously getting confused...
First you say that we pewpew too much and then too little. Can you please settle on just one of those to "constuctively critize"..?
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