' Wrote:The Junker Congress has become quite indignant with the attitudes coming from the players in the Liberty Navy. We have been verbally assaulted on multiple occasions now. I have been told this is acceptable because it was all done in RP. First off, the rules exist because certain language and behavior is inappropriate whether it is in RP or not. In fact, in reading the rules several times I cannot find where it is written that certain things normally not allowed are ok if done in the context of RP. Words matter. Whether they are spoken by real or imaginary people they matter.
I spent thirteen years of my life on an EMS crew. I have seen things that will remain with me forever. I have seen the dark side of humanity. As disturbing as some things I have seen have been, the attitudes behind the actions are often even more disturbing. I worked a call where a woman had been run over by a car. When her best friend showed up and wanted to ride to the hospital with her, her husband’s response was, “I’m leaving, if you go you’re finding your own way home [CENSORED].” There was no indication at all that he saw anything inappropriate in these words. I also had the misfortune of responding to a call where a man had thrown his pregnant wife down a flight of stairs. He then stood tall looked me in the eye and said, “Well the [CENSORED] deserved it.” It is one thing to see another human being mistreated. It is another matter entirely to see it done completely without remorse. I am again feeling just as disturbed by the language coming from the Liberty Navy.
These are only my experiences. I was led to reflect on this after many members of my factions complained about this verbal abuse, sharing their own stories about why this disturbed them so much. This is not just a game here. People are upset. It disturbs me that people can speak with so little regard for human dignity without the slightest thought of how their words may affect another person. I have seen that happening far too much in the Disco community lately. Words matter. They impact people in ways we often do not realize.
I have been told by a few people that the insults and abuse directed at the Junker Congress are acceptable because they were done within the context of role play. This argument is flawed from the start. Professional military organizations are able to operate efficiently in part because they have a strict code of conduct. They do not allow their officers to use foul language in public and insult people in the course of their duties. The “role play” directed at us does not fit a naval officer in any way. I have seen the faction leader of the Liberty Navy state that he is tired of seeing words like “corrupt” used to describe his faction. Allowing this kind of behavior among naval officers will only encourage more such comments in the future. Words matter.
In short, it seems to the players of the Junker's Congress that we are being spat upon. We ask that the leadership of the LN takes the time to look at their motivations, and for them to see us as more then "transport punching bags".
Many Congressmen are joining me in this statement. To all Junkers I ask one favor. I invite you to post your comments with me but to not get into an argument on this thread. It is a feedback thread. Leave your feedback and then leave. I know many of you will have more to say. Please do it elsewhere.
I find that to be utter trash. I don't care about the rest, that's your business, but that's trash.
I play Freelancer because I enjoy playing the game and RPing in the game.
I know Freelancer is a game. I know in this game, I can die.
In this game, I do not have to behave as if I was an officer in some Navy or military organization found in the real, non-virtual world, found outside of the boundaries of this game.
People in this game are not upset because of the conduct of member X of faction Y in situation Z.
People in this game are upset because they forget to remember that it is a game.
It is not the real world.
The people playing as members of the Liberty Navy are real people RolePlaying members of a military organization, year wha'd we got now, 818 A.S., in House Liberty, Sirius Sector, Freelancer universe, videogame Freelancer.
Whether their RolePlay conduct, according to persona A or B or C, is seen as proper conduct of a fictional military organization in a fictional part of a ficitional universe is an opinion, however as this is fictional universe in a computer game, it does not have to match a real military organization's conduct out in the real world. The latter is not of any significance and you can't use it as a basis for whatever your point is.
It's a game.
You play a game.
I play a game.
A RL example of 'proper' conduct isn't something that'll get you far if used as a basis for your criticism.
And I reckon that whatever the Junkers, inRP, get from the Navy, inRP, might be justified just for the simple fact that the former do end up harboring those who then tread in the waters of Liberty with purposes D or E or F which, as a consequence, may involve:
Harming the civilian populace of Liberty.
Committing crimes against the civilian populace of Liberty.
Committing crimes against the other, lawful, residents of Liberty who are not civilians - See the Navy itself, for example.
Etcetera.
It's been, as far as I can recall, established that the Junkers in Liberty are, in the eyes of the 'lawfuls', more often than not a necessary evil.
But just because they are necessary, it does not give them a free 'niceness' card when it comes to treatment by the Navy.
Nor does it oblige even a single member of the Liberty Navy to treat them in any kind of special way.
If you're hated, you're hated. If you're liked, you're liked. If you're neither, well you get the idea.
And it doesn't matter which it is, there's ought to be a reason for it somewhere, so I reckon if you'd like to be treated better, you might have to work for that and earn a better treatment, because, as you were so keen on using a RL example there, just because I'm all friendly to a stranger on the street and greet him warmly with a smile and kind words, it doesn't mean he has to or is in any way obliged to return the favor.
Unlike the conduct of RL military organizations, that there is a basic fact about human interaction, whereas the former is far from basic nor relevant to this game with its fictional universe.
Afterall, just because I kill someone here does not mean I will do it out there on the street in front of my house, but just as I might be skeptical about someone approaching me extra-nice and friendly there, I might be the same here, because that's just one of the many possiblities of interaction I have as a human being.
Note that persona A's conduct here might not match his or her conduct out there, but it does not have to.
It doesn't. Plain and simple.
It might.
But there's nothing saying it does, did or will.
So once again, the LN's actions and conduct here? They don't have to match military organization G's or H's or I's actions and conduct either.
Because it's a game.
And it ain't there to be taken overly serious.
'Cuz here, we can live, we can die, but we face no repercussions for our inRP actions outside of RP.
Or I should rather say we shouldn't, right?
'Cause you took the game too seriously and started an unnecessary discussion over fictional matters that became serious just because...
Someone got offended.
You realize this is one of the many possible things which happen when people take this game too seriously, correct?
-Signed by the human being who RP'd and RP's former Admiral and former High Command member Sarah Willows of the fictional Liberty Navy, fictional House Liberty, fictional Sirius Sector, fictional universe on the real Discovery Freelancer RP 24/7 server, forums and in the game. Year 2010, November the 18th.
Really? I thought this was a fun and games kind of thing where we don't take stuff too serious and with a smile on our face instead, working together, having fun together, and just spending a nice and happy time in the sandbox of Discovery, like happy little children building sand castles as a group on a sunny Sunday afternoon, while we leave the burdens of reality somewhere else.
Or should I say like happy little ducklings floating in a pond together?
' Wrote:Really? I thought this was a fun and games kind of thing where we don't take stuff too serious and with a smile on our face instead, working together, having fun together, and just spending a nice and happy time in the sandbox of Discovery, like happy little children building sand castles as a group on a sunny Sunday afternoon, while we leave the burdens of reality somewhere else.
Or should I say like happy little ducklings floating in a pond together?
<div align="right](quack)
I'm not saying what it's about, I'm saying you mistook taking your RP seriously and taking RP literally.
Everybody has fun their own way, and who are you to say that people who enjoy arr pee are any less worthy of fun than you or I, hmm?
At any rate, we're ruining Joe in a Cup's faction feedback thread, so we can continue this discussion in a more private place, preferably a place where there are plenty of blunt objects present. :P Right? Right?!
Edit: I am so high on caffeine right now ^________^
' Wrote:I'm not saying what it's about, I'm saying you mistook taking your RP seriously and taking RP literally.
Everybody has fun their own way, and who are you to say that people who enjoy arr pee are any less worthy of fun than you or I, hmm?
At any rate, we're ruining Joe in a Cup's faction feedback thread, so we can continue this discussion in a more private place, preferably a place where there are plenty of blunt objects present. :P Right? Right?!
Edit: I am so high on caffeine right now ^________^
I don't know, I don't remember saying anything about the enjoyment of RP or not Doc, but if you like to twist the meaning of my words around to your leisure there isn't much point in a discussion now is there?
Besides, wouldn't you just get one of those famous 'moments' of yours and turn an unimportant and trivial matter into serious, and dare I say personal, business sooner or later anyway, even if it were just temporary?
I myself prefer to usually stick to the less-serious approach on matters here as that ends up being by far more enjoyable - read: fun - than taking a game with all of the things around it for more than it is - read: a game - which inevitably results in 'srs bznz' arriving somewhere which stretches far beyond the game.
I think you do understand the difference of taking RP serious and this game and the things around as a whole serious, don't you, Doc? Or are you going to tell me I mistook "taking RP seriously" with "taking RP literally" when I did explicitely say:
"'Cause you took the game too seriously and started an unnecessary discussion over fictional matters that became serious just because...
Someone got offended."
It's one thing to take RP serious, Doc, and another to take the whole big picture of this game and everything around it so serious that it ends up creating issues as the issue discussed on pages before, isn't it?
Or to simplify with an example that would cover one aspect:
It is one thing to take your RP serious and devote your time and effort into maintaining, developing and enjoying your RP in whichever fashion you prefer and / or see fit.
It is a completely different thing if you take this whole game with all parts of it, like the abovementioned RP, so serious that merely in-character and in-RP hostility or insults end up hurting your feelings or insulting you on a personal level.
Wow. Guys. Just leave it alone. It'll die out. It's just a game, no need for this big debate.. Insults are meant in-RP, but should be limited.
There.
But.. If you do feel the need to continue this debate. All of you need to take in consideration many factors here.
Such as the fact that probably only 2 or 3 LN members are insulting to a great extend. That it does not take Hawk much to get mad/annoyed, and he DOES take this game very seriously. Not that there's anything wrong with that though, if i was a leader of a faction I'd feel the same as he does. That Max has a tendency for going over board. That many of the congress members that mentioned the "verbal insults" probably haven't even seen this yet. And bla bla bla.
But all-in-all. We're human. And what do humans do? We give hugs that's what! /huggle
' Wrote:I don't know, I don't remember saying anything about the enjoyment of RP or not Doc, but if you like to twist the meaning of my words around to your leisure there isn't much point in a discussion now is there?
Bend it, bend it, just a little bit of twist and turn!
Stop being so damned paranoid, it doesn't suit you, and as I said, if you want to lay it in me then do so on Skype, but it won't really produce much of a reaction in me because I'm too happy at the moment. :)
Oh, and for the record... *whispers*... we were talking about the same thing, and I was helping you get your point across. ;)
' Wrote:Bend it, bend it, just a little bit of twist and turn!
Stop being so damned paranoid, it doesn't suit you, and as I said, if you want to lay it in me then do so on Skype, but it won't really produce much of a reaction in me because I'm too happy at the moment. :)
Oh, and for the record... *whispers*... we were talking about the same thing, and I was helping you get your point across. ;)
Much hugs to the LN for being generally awesome.
More your thing with the bending part Doc, and no paranoia on my end I'd know of regarding any matter discussed here.
I don't have anything to 'lay in you'. As you've said, won't "really produce much of a reaction" in you, but that's nothing I didn't know already.
And I'm afraid we weren't talking about the same thing, Doc, as shown by your previous posts and apparent incapability to interpret what I wrote in my initial post as intended.
It's okay though, you're human and with being that comes room for error, so it's all cool by me.
Basically what needs to happen, is that the LN backs off a little. It's no fun being the faction that gets pushed around by the guys with the big guns.
I imagine this is already being set in motion as Joe and Hawk are having/have had their private talk.
One thing that I am disappointed with is that a member of our community was offended and what happens? He gets called a cry baby and insulted further. I would have thought that if this was just a game and we were all friends the offending person would apologize. But that's just a cry baby Junker's opinion.
![[Image: joeinacup.jpg]](http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2720/joeinacup.jpg)
![[Image: 6fZYcda.gif]](http://i.imgur.com/6fZYcda.gif)