@Talesin, make a military character and join a patrol. It's easy to make conclusions according to your personal fitting without actually observing the other side internally. I could recommend the same to everyone else.
I can only speak for the RM, but our RP is not that we sit in one place and tell up our life story to the random people we interact with. We are a military force that is friendly only to those people who are listed as their friends in canon, to these people we keep talking, establish character relations and conduct internal role play.
' Wrote:@The Major: I won't get into an argument with you, simply because the last time we did you went balistik and Dab had to remove a lot of posts.
Personal attack and I'm going ballistic. Cool.
If you're really worried about my mental state then consider this: I was trolling back then, now I'm not.
' Wrote:Don't tell me you didn't know about this problem. Just because we didn't go Q_Q'ing on the forums doesn't mean we didn't ask for your help, over and over again
I told you I didn't know of this problem? Tell me where exactly, you're assuming again.
Then there's the fact, which I'll keep stating over and over again, that I invest most of my RM time with handling the case of the Omegas in support of the Rheinland mining factions.
Do I seriously need to dig up a few dozen links starting from summer last year?
' Wrote:No, you do not patrol the Omegas and yes, you are in Hamburg 80% of the time.
We are talking about the RHA, the military force of the 3rd most powerfull unlawful faction in Sirius, after the Corsairs and Outcasts, so yes, it should be one of the military's priorities. You won't be just babysitting miners, the Hessians want to throw off the governament and they are fighting agaist every lawful faction in Rheinland
We just did. I did yesterday too. Take your time and look around the RM MD too, you'll find that we're in the Omegas quite frequently.
About the Hessians, yes you are right and that is why we fight them instead of the police at all. That does not make them a bigger priority than an organized, invading house military though, especially if the Hessians are not attacking in full force, nor introducing territorial claims. They are a considerably smaller threat than Liberty is.
' Wrote:Again, don't tell me we didn't ask for Wraiths just because there aren't 2132452 forum threads about it. We asked, you said no, we solved our problem.
No. You asked, I gave you some. You may have asked again, which I don't remember, then I may have denied it once. Now you go on saying that we denied 2132452 requests of yours when it wasn't even two.
Exaggeration indeed.
' Wrote:Ok, you don't aprove, we do, it's no problem. If you read the "deal" you would see it is temporary, it was made just for one month. Maybe it will be extended, maybe not. Is it not an allience neither, we will simply pay the RHA and ignore eachother
We tried that and it didn't work
' Wrote:As I said in the original post, I won't opinionize it here. I'm simply trying to correct the reasons why it happened.
' Wrote:]No, emotions have nothing to do with it. Also read my first sentence again. As for the evidence, we all do play the game, remember? Nobody pointed a finger at the RM, never. We simply explained why we did that deal, nothing more.
You never pointed a finger? You've been stating assumptions over and over again about a thing that you have no material evidence of. What is "common sense" for you may not be so common for others, that is why visualization and evidence is in existence.
' Wrote:Simply put, you don't have to please everyone.
You don't have to think of ways to protect traders and miners at all times.
You don't need to have constant surveillance of every single field and lane.
It isn't your fault miners are being robbed, it's the miners fault for mining in the obvious spot without any sort of protection. Nothing stops miners from working in groups. Ever see what a couple Hegemons with Type 4's can do to a bomber? It isn't pretty. Why not have someone sitting ahead of the miners with a CD to buy the miners enough time to run away and get off plane?
We all play the game to have fun. And if that fun is being taken away because Skype/feedback/PM/whatever is bombarded with people who are complaining that they died, it stops being fun. When it stops being fun it becomes work, and I don't need a second job. People are going to get pirated, you can't stop that. If you are able to, what's the point of being a pirate? To be cannon fodder?
Ignore the Q_Q, keep playing as you are.
Certainly, but hearing others out and knowing what their problem is, and trying to iron out differences between people stuck in an atmosphere with each other permanently in order to make that game mutually pleasant cannot hurt.
' Wrote:Alluding to the Stationary Battleship placement; of course you can't move stationary Battleships, but you can RP a Battleship in the style of a stationary Battleship!
Battleships are more of a deterrent than a pirate hunter. If Battleship pilots behaved more responsibly they could fulfil the job of flashpoint holder. As far as my experience goes, if a trader/miner can get close to a Battleship it is safe from pirate attack, at the very least as an escort to a friendly base or real stationary battleship.
Let's imagine that scenario in the Rock-filled Omega-7 with a Rheinland-turtle full of Solaris-turrets... this won't work out as you might think due to at least two reasons:
- The battleship can barely move in there while a pirate-bomber will simply stay behind the rocks and blow the miners from there if they don't pay
- Solaris turrets don't work very well on huge ships.
' Wrote:Go play the game, within the given limitations. That is how role play games are played. Not by trying to work around those limitations or whining about them.
I agree, it doesn't hurt at all to open up the discussion. But from what you've explained to us in the thread the problem seems to be stemming from one side wanting to make credits without risk of losing them, and the impossible task of protecting them 100% of the time. It simply cannot be done unless you are willing to force your players to maintain a 24/7 presence on the server which you know well will lead to your faction becoming barren.
' Wrote:I agree, it doesn't hurt at all to open up the discussion. But from what you've explained to us in the thread the problem seems to be stemming from one side wanting to make credits without risk of losing them, and the impossible task of protecting them 100% of the time. It simply cannot be done unless you are willing to force your players to maintain a 24/7 presence on the server which you know well will lead to your faction becoming barren.
Not really. We never demanded anything from the RM, I just explained why we did what we did. We didn't Q_Q neither
As for the problem, I don't see any. All I see is some RM Q_Q about DHC being OORP
Okay, don't really want to get into the mud slinging but there are a few points that are really bugging me.
First, the whole bit about the RFP and how it is their responsibility ... it seems most of this talk is about miners, and a lot about Omega 7. Just so everyone knows, the RFP cannot enter Omega 7, so it is NOT their responsiblity. But I do agree that they should handle most stuff in house space. So if we are talking about in house space, yes I think they Military should get a pass. But as most of this conversation has specifically targeted Omega 7, the RFP seems irrelevant.
And quite honesty, traders and miners are going to be pissed at the Military no matter what, you can't do anything. I get yelled at on my Military character ... my Kruger character ... my Hunter, all because I am not doing what I am supposed to be doing. Even though I still haven't figured out exactly where it is written I have to do anything, this is just something we all have to get used to.
I just read a rumor today that said that a lot of civilians think the Rheinland Military incompetent because of the loss in the 80 years war, and then on top of that they are getting blown up in Omega 7. So all this whining could be considered inRP, even though that is what it is ... whining. Like what Rod said, space is like the oceans, it's MASSIVE, the old saying goes needle in a haystack. But if you think civilaians are just going to say, "Oh ok Military, we understand", I think you are a bit naive. Civilians are always getting mad at authorities, I did not think it would be any different in Disco where we try our best to simulate everyday life.
I am not accusing anyone of anything, just from my experiences, the patrols in Omega 7 are few and far between. And I spend quite a bit of time in Omega 7. I am not complaining, I try to get more Kruger escorts, created a bounty board, I am just stating what I have seen myself. I understand it is the military's job to deal with Liberty, but it is also the Military's job to secure the borders, again in my opinion. Omega 7 is a border world, that is under constant attack by Hessians and Corsairs, both of which have access to very advanced ships. Rheinland citizens are under attack by Military grade equipment when we pilot, mostly, Civilian lines. Again, I see inRP why people would be upset with the Military because neither the RFP nor the corporations are equipped to handle these threats.
To sum it up, I don't think there is anything you can do to ease the complaints, more patrols would be nice, but of course I am biased. I am not asking or telling you to do anything with the RM. I think you could only sit in Omega 7 with the RM, pirates would still find a way, and you would still be getting complaints.
To address the comments about the military not getting taxes from corporations, that is just something that comes along with playing a game ... as long as players are financing their Military characters with outside funds, assumed from other traders/miners, I don't see that as beeing a valid argument in any sense. My opinion again.
And last point, kind of going on what Wolfspirit said, one thing the RM could look into is splitting different groups with different responsibilities. I have noticed the new RM-V squad, and of course have noticed them participating in the Liberty conflict, something like that could be created for the RM. A tactical squad based in Omega 7 ready to confront threats to miners, but also threats to Rheinland's border. This way you don't have to worry about taking a character from Liberty to Rheinland. I see a lot of Military in Hamburg, Bering, Texas, and of course New Berlin ... none of those besides New Berlin is a quick trip to Omega 7, I can understand why some Military would be reluctant to head on down to O7 for a few pirates. Maybe, the corporations could show their gratitude a bit more, I am not sure. Having characters strategically placed is not abuse of game mechanics, with a little RP makes perfect sense. After all this is a game of interactions with other people.
' Wrote:Not really. We never demanded anything from the RM, I just explained why we did what we did. We didn't Q_Q either
As for the problem, I don't see any. All I wee is some RM Q_Q about DHC being OORP
And I see someone with an understanding problem or a personal grudge. Or, perhaps both.
This thread is discussing how a military force can express its support without constant surveillance. Your treaty was used as an example.
It is NOT about the treaty. No one is Q_Q-ing.
EDIT:
@Pharm: I agree with most of what you said and I already thought of making a separate border guard group for the RM, however it's just a concept so far which so far has more negative aspects than positive ones due to the split in activity and metagaming. Perhaps it could be arranged as a collaboration between the RM and the RFP.
Though yet again, I have to say, from what I've seen personally, the RM is patrolling the Omegas (Omega-7 chiefly) a lot, I do it all the time and most of the time I'm down there, nothing happens. I do suspect however, that a lot of pirates decide not to attack if an RM is online in the Omegas (thanks to the player list), which is why there definitely is a demand for a constant surveillance as a deterrent.
A point that has not been raised before is one I can agree with the most: Gratitude.
So far all the RM has been getting from corporations is complaints, whining and a negative attitude sparked by false conclusions no matter how much we (I) tried to help. Perhaps instead of that, you could work out a form of at least seeming appreciation for what we (try to) do.
' Wrote:And I see someone with an understanding problem or a personal grudge. Or, perhaps both.
This thread is discussing how a military force can express its support without constant surveillance. Your treaty was used as an example.
It is NOT about the treaty. No one is Q_Q-ing.
Ok, how can a military force express its support? Ships and activity. Wolfspirit and Pharm already said it, I'll say it again. Station some ships in Omega 7. Rheinland has territorial claims on Omega 7 so the presence of both RM and RFP there would be justified. Get over your personal grudges with certain guys and work together with the corporations. Listen to them and give them what they need. Simple as that
Nobody wants constant surveillance but we hardly see any ships in Omega 7, let alone Omega 11, where our main problem is. The best uncut diamonds field is 6k away from the jumphole to Omega 54, the Hessian guard system. If we lose that we got nothing. Maybe if the admins/devs fix this issue things will change.
' Wrote:Alec, dude, I wont argue with you, coz we made it in the past. We have a situation what - in our readings - you must handle. You dont do it, or - as other perfect RP guy say - it maybe not your response, whatever. We solved a bigger problem, because [RM] cant or dont want, whatever why. Live with it. Sadly RP speech dont stop gunfire. DHC- want mining but he cant coz if any DHC- is in Omegas, just go the message mostly from RF on RHA chat how DHC- in Omegas lets kill, and if we catch them with eagles they call support from RHA. You can call it lame and I agree, but this happen and it wont change.
What is your suggestion? How can a faction tagged miner or 2 load up his cargo if 2-3 hessian log into him and demand all the cargo when its full? Same with Krugers as I see. DO not come here and Q_Q how "Please tell me what can I do?" Go there and fight. No other way. You must be there all day and protect the miners. Players who lose full cargo ore more times, dont care with excuses. And all what you can say is only excuses. Mate. You cant avoid the confrontation with RHA in Omegas this is the simply fact. Guess this is the real reason why RM dont come, coz usually if they come, they dont leave it alive.
Sadly here is some player who are not like "I typed 3 hour RP in chat and after it I died in 3 sec so Im happy" as Aelerm said it one time. Be there continously or at least when needed or dont do nothing but then dont cry.
And just a side note, we gladly payed out hundred millions to BHG| or mercs so you can be sure if you say "lets RP, pay state tax and there will be the RM and protect miners" we pay you too.
Okay, unknown alternative account.
So I'm whining now because I want to hear your problems. Forgive me for wanting to help you.
What you are requesting, constant surveillance that is, cannot be done. That is simply why I requested alternatives. It's vain to tell me that that is the only way, since if it is, it cannot be done.
I have a life. Other RM members have lives. We have other characters, accounts, games to play. Consider all that and do not request something that cannot be done, Discovery is not a job, it's a game.
' Wrote:Ok, how can a military force express its support? Ships and activity. Wolfspirit and Pharm already said it, I'll say it again. Station some ships in Omega 7. Rheinland has territorial claims on Omega 7 so the presence of both RM and RFP there would be justified. Get over your personal grudges with certain guys and work together with the corporations. Listen to them and give them what they need. Simple as that
Hit the nail on the head again: I got over my personal grudges, in fact I never mixed any personal issues with canon role play. That is exactly why I am asking for what you need there, aside one thing which cannot be managed.
None of you know me personally. It's foolish to assume that I hold grudges or act according to them in any regard, it is yet another assumption which has no base at all.
I told you, I will intensify the patrols in Omega-11. I will also mail the RFP. I am also willing to give out more tech.
You people told me I'm a whiner and that the RM don't care about miners, when we're doing everything in our power to easen the situation.
We're getting nothing but bitching in turn. Seriously, what more do you want?
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