Leviathan class Supertanker

[Dopamino]

i love it!

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I mostly lurk around Media Center these days.

[Raekur]

Ok..just to see if I understand this.
btw..Beautiful job on the model.

Cargo = 5000
Weapons = 2 turrets
Manuverability = very low
Cruise engine warm up time = >5 seconds
Armor = ?
Shielding = ?
Price = > 100 million

First off..this is not a flame but I am a bit confused that if the above information is correct, why would anyone in their right mind purchase such a ship? For a gain of 10% to cargo capacity you become an easy mark for any pirate in a fighter and due to the loss in manuverability and cruise engine warm up time..several trade routes become either too dangerous or take so much time that the run is worthless. I know that some may feel that the ships lack of defensive ability may promote the hiring of mercs for escorts. Thats fine except in cases where no mercs are available or consider that unless its 3 to 1 odds chances are the transport will be destroyed before the escorts can take down the pirate. In most cases, if the escorts fail to protect the merchant, they dont get paid. If the escorts fail then there is also a good chance that they will not be hired for later runs which will leave the merchant defensless if no other mercs are available. Engine charge up time over 4 seconds will make this ship very undesirable as even NPC's could kill it before it gets to cruise if the manuverability is very poor. The ship stats above seem to be more designed for a trader by a pirate then they would be a design by a trader for a trader.

Would you consider something like this for stats instead?

Cargo = 5000
Turrets = 4
Manuver = Moderate (equal to or greater then the Behemoth.)
Cruise time = 3 seconds
Armor = 100000
Shields = Class 7
Price = 100,000,000

Basically, lighter alloy used for the hull with emphisis placed on increased engine output and additional manuver thrusters.
4 turrets permit it to defend itself against NPC's but not a high chance of being a major threat to a PC.

If you make the ship with no advantages to a trader, its going to be a waste of effort because if a trader feels that there is a very small chance of the ship being able to complete the run under normal circumstances, then there is no reason to purchase it when there is a high chance of a greater threat being present.

Like I said before, this is not a flame against the idea but please keep in mind that from the perspective of a trader a ship with no ability to defend itself and a fraction of an advantage being offered in return at a cost of over double the next ship would make this ship a very poor investment.

[mohr]

Thank you for your post!

Yes, with the stats you posted and the inclusion of the Adv. Train, there really is no point to have this ship in the game. however, I submitted the ship without hardpoints and Igiss decides, as per the ship submission terms and agreements, what the stats are going to be. So, while I had my own idea of what it was going to be initially, this is Igiss' mod and he decides the role of any given ship. I trust he will balance it so there is some kind of benefit of flying this thing.

Again, thenk you for the feedback!

Mohr

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[Drake]

I pretty much agree on all those points, since it can't be greater than 5000 cargo, so it would pretty much be a bulkier version of the Adv. Train. Just one thing...

Manuver = Moderate (equal to or greater then the Behemoth.)

From what I've seen, the Behemoth has one of the best maneuverabilities of all the transports, not really fitting for a Supertanker.

[Raekur]

Drake, the idea was trading out armor for a lighter weight alloy and increasing the amount of manuver thrusters.

OOC // basically a ship that can manuver through asteroid fields a little easier by trading bulk for engine power. Just remember, to a merchant if a ship can not make it through an area with some degree of success then that route is unusable. The solution would be to craft a vessel to compensate for the short comings of existing ships in relation to those trade runs. I think the best way to represent this is look at the ship design system employed by Traveller. This is a PnP game that came out in 1976 and is still going very strong. Using a system like that as an example allows ship design to be balanced and consistant. In that system you could trade out armor thickness to get more room for additional points into manuvering without losing cargo space.

[Drake]

Yeah, that I can understand. Awhile back I suggested a new "major" transport (4000+ cargo) that traded armor and weaponry for speed and maneuverability, the perfect ship for a smuggler. But I just don't see such a ship as anything like the Supertanker... It should be more smooth and streamlined, like the Whale, and less like a flying block.

[Raekur]

Most of the time I would expect smugglers to use freighters as it allows more speed and manuverability as well as the ability to hide easier (asteroids work well for that). Transports dont usually make good smuggling ships due to their lack of being able to evade detection. What I saw as a good use for this was a merchants approach / solution to accessing those remote trade routes that are only open to the smaller ships. That would be a good reason for designing a ship that does not offer more then what is already available. If the capacity is going to be capped at 5000 then you need a different reason for making a ship then just getting that extra 500 tons of cargo space. Accessability to previously inaccessable locations would be a major reason to do this. Time is money to a merchant, so a ship that can navigate asteroid fields and enter a tradelane faster would be worth quite a bit to a trader even if it only saves him 5 to 10 min in flight time for the long distance hops.

Correct me if im mistook what I have read so far, the impression I was seeing was this design being a wash because there was no clear reason for its design if the only advantage would be an extra 500 tons of cargo and having to lose all defenses to get it.

[Drake]

Correct me if im mistook what I have read so far, the impression I was seeing was this design being a wash because there was no clear reason for its design if the only advantage would be an extra 500 tons of cargo and having to lose all defenses to get it.

Nah, if it was the only ship out there with a 5000 hold, greedy traders would still use it. But the newest version of Discovery (still in beta) has an 'Advanced Train' which has a 5000 hold, but is smaller, more maneuverable, and better armed than the Supertanker had been planned on being. Last I heard, this tanker was HUGE, meaning it certainly wouldn't be very good at traveling through asteroid fields and such things. Anyway, even the densest asteroid fields offer no difficulty to a regular old Large Train. Or, in the new version, the Whale would probably be good for that kind of stuff, if you're willing to sacrifice all weapons save for a CM dropper. 4700 cargo and pretty good (for a transport) maneuverability, unless something has been changed.

And while it would make more sense for a smuggler to fly a freighter, that's just not going to happen. As things stand there's no benefit whatsoever to hauling cargo, contraband or otherwise, in a freighter rather than a transport. Freighters are just there until people get enough cash to upgrade to a transport.

[Dopamino]

i wish we could make a ship like a doublewide ltrain, 10k cargo, but costs 300 million.

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I mostly lurk around Media Center these days.

[Doom]

we can make it...but i doubt it would be in the mod