.:j:. Junker Congress Faction Feedback

[Loken]

That's not what Sina's doing so I'm a little confused as to why you pointed that out. He is commenting on a player using information that their character doesn't have.
It's easily done, sometimes you just don't think twice about where you learned a piece of information before you use it. It's still perfectly valid feedback though, and something that Hawk should consider.

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[Daedric]

Snoz's point was Hawk's character does have access to said information.

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[Coral Reaver]

Liberty Navy ships do not have cloaking devices. A Junker Congressman saw you on the lanes, and then later a separate Junker Congressman posted something in our message dump, addressed to all Junker Congressmen, that one of ours had been caught, and it was very bad.

It's part of our roleplaying to assume the worst in every situation. And quite frankly, we've been justified in that many a time

I fail to see any metagaming that has taken place here.

Okay, fair point. Thanks for the explaination.

Now only one issue remains with me and that is the information used from the DHC sending a transmission to the RM/KPT about a Molly Scylla stating he was there to assist the Junker Congress. The same information that was used by Hawk's character, stating that he had a feeling something was about to go down.

****Incoming Transmission****
****Comm ID: Arbiter Jack Crow****
****location: The Rocinante****

I’m piecing some things together in my mind purely through speculation at this point. I’m not even going to ask who is responsible for the Molly destroyer in Sigma 13 and something tells me I really don’t want to know. I can understand perfectly well the logic behind it. You are getting hammered by an enemy in one location, so you try and hit from another location. However, it would be fitting for someone to have informed me of this, especially since the captain of this vessel was throwing around the name of the Junker Congress.

Since I think I know why this happened I can explain this, but my explanation will be a lot easier if that ship makes itself very scarce, very quick.

Crow Out

****End Transmission****

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...3943&st=460

Post #462. Yesterday, 10:10 PM

The source he used:

First post: Yesterday, 08:24 PM

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=91136

Now as I was personally there at the scene, no .:J:. characters were in sight, that can also be confirmed on the screenshots the DHC Forwarded. The Molly himself, at the exact timestamp from which Hawk posted in his message dump about it (and anything previous to that) did not tell the Junker Congress he had said it either.

Logical conclusion: Your faction and all characters therein have no idea said Molly stated that at that point of time. Even if you would go tell him over Skype now to go post something about it.

The fact that Hawk's character proceeded based on his "random gut feeling" about something he had no idea about, to perform an attempt of countering the issue, by demanding said Scylla to depart from Sigma-13 or stop claiming things in the Junker Congress' name is a blatant display of metagaming. Since your characters had no idea that this had occurred in the first place.

I'm very curious how you will justify this one.

You see just to make sure you understand my standpoint here. I would not have given two cents about you telling that guy quietly over Forum PM or Skype, to stop saying that. But acting like your character has information retreived from a DHC-Transmission and then use it for your benefits (in-character), is not acceptable.

[Huhuh]

Maybe he learned of the Mollies through this?

**Incoming Transmission**
**From [Garda]Bobby.McClain**
**Location: Sigma 13**

*Screen opens to show an unshaven member of the mollys*
After readin this, ah was shocked. Not just kinda shocked, but "jaw dropped" shocked. Ah always knew that tha
Kusari were purty heartless; but ah dinnae think that they'd be tha type ta murder innocent people. If dey were gonna "rescue" tha refugees, dey should brought a ship dat could carry all a dem. After ah was done thinkin bout dis, ah showed dis to me missy on Arry. Now, me missy be a strong woman. But when she saw dis, she cried. Both me and me wife are sorry fur what appened to ye Junkers, what da Kusari did twere a shameful thing.

Ah shoed me boss dis, an when e did, e got mad. So, e called tha Garda and oder Mollys ta arms. We're in Sigma 13 now. Three Scyllas, mah gunboat, two very heavy fighters, an ah think more will come. An if ANY Kusari military come widin 15k of Yanagi, dey'll be attacked.
If da Kusari Military feks wid da Junkers, dey fek wid us.

Yew fekers are gonna go ta hell. And tha mollys 'll send ye thar.

[Garda]Bobby.McClain out.

**End Transmission**

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[Coral Reaver]

Nice try but here is the issue:

****Incoming Transmission****
****Comm ID: Arbiter Jack Crow****
****location: The Rocinante****

I’m piecing some things together in my mind purely through speculation at this point. I’m not even going to ask who is responsible for the Molly destroyer in Sigma 13 and something tells me I really don’t want to know. I can understand perfectly well the logic behind it. You are getting hammered by an enemy in one location, so you try and hit from another location. However, it would be fitting for someone to have informed me of this, especially since the captain of this vessel was throwing around the name of the Junker Congress.

Since I think I know why this happened I can explain this, but my explanation will be a lot easier if that ship makes itself very scarce, very quick.

Crow Out

****End Transmission****

Your provided post neither has a screenshot that says anything about Mollies claiming to be firing in the name of the Congress (in-space, in-game). Neither does that Molly who wrote that comm message in pure text mention anything about that. I expect an edit of the same Molly-post you quoted to arrive in about an hour from now to prove me wrong.

So once again, given the timing and context of Hawk's post (approximately two hours after the DHC-Transmission). He was meta-gaming the evidence he read over a DHC-transmission sent only to the KPT and the RM to promptly warn the same identified Scylla to leave, over something that he said at a time and location of which none of your units were present at. And the character behind the Scylla, didn't inform you at the time prior to the Message Dump's post (Feb 5 2011, 10:10 PM). If he has even said it to you yet.

As of late, there has been a tendency of Hawk's character posting things in a very timely fashion based on information that are being sent through communications and/or other factions' message dump relays. The justifications I have received so far on three of these cases, Maximo Valeri, the Junker Data Bounty and this matter, have been vague to say the least.

I will once more re-state that I as a player do not care if you tell this Scylla over Skype or Forum PM to stop claiming things in the Congress' name. But doing so as a character is unacceptable because that would mean that you draw conclusions based on information your character has absolutely no access to. In other words, metagaming.

[Huhuh]

Nice try but here is the issue:
Your provided post neither has a screenshot that says anything about Mollies claiming to be firing in the name of the Congress (in-space, in-game). Neither does that Molly who wrote that comm message in pure text mention anything about that. I expect an edit of the same Molly-post you quoted to arrive in about an hour from now to prove me wrong.

So once again, given the timing and context of Hawk's post (approximately two hours after the DHC-Transmission). He was meta-gaming the evidence he read over a DHC-transmission sent only to the KPT and the RM to promptly warn the same identified Scylla to leave, over something that he said at a time and location of which none of your units were present at. And the character behind the Scylla, didn't inform you at the time prior to the Message Dump's post (Feb 5 2011, 10:10 PM). If he has even said it to you yet.

As of late, there has been a tendency of Hawk's character posting things in a very timely fashion based on information that are being sent through communications and/or other factions' message dump relays. The justifications I have received so far on three of these cases, Maximo Valeri, the Junker Data Bounty and this matter, have been vague to say the least.

I will once more re-state that I as a player do not care if you tell this Scylla over Skype or Forum PM to stop claiming things in the Congress' name. But doing so as a character is unacceptable because that would mean that you draw conclusions based on information your character has absolutely no access to. In other words, metagaming.

Congressmen have been in contact with the Mollies you know. You can't see everything.

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[Coral Reaver]

Congressmen have been in contact with the Mollies you know. You can't see everything.

Obviously you are just trying to spin this around with vague reasons once more.

The fact of the matter remains is that on none of the 20 latest comm threads that are within the time-parameters of the creation of the DHC-Transmission Thread is about a Molly informing the Junker Congress about them deliberately saying they came to Yanagi at the request of the Junker Congress.

Now add this to the fact that the message dump I'm referring to was constructed and posted exactly 2 two hours after the DHC-Transmission. And that the context of this message dump was in reference to that, clearly, as the DHC explicitly talked about a Scylla fighting at the request of the Junker Congress.

[Hawk]

All of you calm down. There is no need for this. Sina, I've made the offer to talk to you about this many times and you keep refusing. A simple conversation can clear up so much of this. I don't hate you or your faction. You are the best thing that has happened to us in over a year. We are enjoying this thoroughly.

Now, how do you know where I am getting my information from? None of the posts I made were addressed to you or really impacted you at all. Do you know who has been sending me information in private? Do you know who has been whispering to me in game? You have no idea how many people have crawled out of the woodwork to pass on information to me. I've been getting little bits and pieces of things, and enough to know certain of my people are involved and I wanted to know the whole story.

However, I would like to say thank you for telling everyone publicly that I had no knowledge of the Molly Destroyer coming into Sigma 13 because I didn't. Now I can call you a liar with a clear conscience when you try to tell everyone that I planned that.

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[Hawk]

Obviously you are just trying to spin this around with vague reasons once more.

The fact of the matter remains is that on none of the 20 latest comm threads that are within the time-parameters of the creation of the DHC-Transmission Thread is about a Molly informing the Junker Congress about them deliberately saying they came to Yanagi at the request of the Junker Congress.

Now add this to the fact that the message dump I'm referring to was constructed and posted exactly 2 two hours after the DHC-Transmission. And that the context of this message dump was in reference to that, clearly, as the DHC explicitly talked about a Scylla fighting at the request of the Junker Congress.

Let me invite you to go read everything addressed to the Junker Congress in the communication thread. You see how many people are contacting us offering aid because of what happened to our transports. Well, what you are seeing there is only a fraction of the people who have contacted me. I have been contacted in many other ways with offers. You didn't bother to speak to me about this at all, although I've wanted to speak to you about it. You just assume you know everyone I've been talking to and what they've told me.

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[Coral Reaver]

All of you calm down. There is no need for this. Sina, I've made the offer to talk to you about this many times and you keep refusing. A simple conversation can clear up so much of this. I don't hate you or your faction. You are the best thing that has happened to us in over a year. We are enjoying this thoroughly.

Why do you always assume I'm angry. Does it make you feel more mature to keep telling everyone to cool off? I'm asking a question, and I'm receiving trolling one-liners in return. Of course I'm going to build up my argument. If you wanna talk, let's talk. My skype is Zeltak90

Now, how do you know where I am getting my information from? None of the posts I made were addressed to you or really impacted you at all. Do you know who has been sending me information in private? Do you know who has been whispering to me in game? You have no idea how many people have crawled out of the woodwork to pass on information to me. I've been getting little bits and pieces of things, and enough to know certain of my people are involved and I wanted to know the whole story.

The timing of your post feels too close to make it believable that someone sent you through private means, and through the medium of character-RP wise, not just some Molly player writing to you on Skype saying that he said this or that in-game. If that was the case then I could get my information on practical everything, the matter of encrypted transmissions would be obsolete.

Now I'm not saying you are lying, or actually, yeah I'm saying you are lying. Your recent pattern of the way you time your posts, right after a big message dump or comm message is sent out, and you put up your case with nothing but texts, it makes it hard to believe someone told you anything.

However, I would like to say thank you for telling everyone publicly that I had no knowledge of the Molly Destroyer coming into Sigma 13 because I didn't. Now I can call you a liar with a clear conscience when you try to tell everyone that I planned that.

In my opinion you didn't, since this is Faction Feedback related I'm going to ask you here. If you are going to throw up some morale-card let us take a look at your little shiny-knight history. Maximo Valeri, a character of mine had been calling you a bastard over comms. What do you do? You write (pretend) like you have been insulted in real-life (fat chance) and use it as a proxy to actually complain about [LN] pushing the Junker Congress to FR5 criminals abusing their stations. Now immeadiatly after this, you get five to six of your members to write /signed. Creating some form of drama-momentum in the thread.

You wanna talk about the fact that this is just about your character or you as a player and as such you rather talk over Skype? Then why didn't you treat me in the same manner on the Valeri issue? That to me sounds like a hypocrite.

I do not believe you. Your reasons are vague and unproven on numerous levels. You claim "a little bird" told you exactly about that situation, and exactly two hours after the DHC-Transmission. Yeah right.

Let me invite you to go read everything addressed to the Junker Congress in the communication thread. You see how many people are contacting us offering aid because of what happened to our transports. Well, what you are seeing there is only a fraction of the people who have contacted me. I have been contacted in many other ways with offers. You didn't bother to speak to me about this at all, although I've wanted to speak to you about it. You just assume you know everyone I've been talking to and what they've told me.

And yet "all these people" have remained silent in terms of communications thread regarding this specific incident. I'm to assume that they have no issues going on their AI/Klingon/Jedi Molly characters and saying they will defend your place in Sigma-13, but that they can't send a tiny bit of message to you saying that a Scylla claimed to be assisting on behalf of the Junker Congress? There is no logic in this.