Looking for Hessian ship models

[Jinx]

textures do give a model the final touch - but if a model doesn t look like it belongs to a faction un-skinned... it won t be convincing with a texture either.

about the gunboat not being pretty. - that might be so.... ( all the models are made by AoM, fighters and GB ) - but ppl should sometimes appreciate the ugly, too.

ugly can be nice - and a good thing in terms of roleplay.



about the current battleship model:

- i can see where ppl say it looks strikingly like the Mako.... i consider that a moderate problem that ought to be addressed.
- there is plenty of detail on the ship - very nicely done.
- proportions are good - in other words, it looks good.
- scaling is a little off. - or .... too small. best you get out of it is a Mako-style battleship. ( small core, limited arcs, few guns, low armour )

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Hades]

Link
This better as far as the scaling and Mako appearance?

[Syrus]

It's clearly a medium battleship.
Looks better without those wings now. But it misses some details around the mid-section. And it still has a
"Mako"ish look to it. Taking a look at the Mako I can clearly see it's because of that mid-section, but even
though I don't think it wouldn't be fitting. Though I still don't like the engines that much.

- i can see where ppl say it looks strikingly like the Mako.... i consider that a moderate problem that
ought to be addressed.

Only problem. As I said, it's clearly a medium battleship looking at the comparisions. (Just take a look at the
Kusari BS comparision...It's not THAT small.)

So, do you think it doesn't look Rheinlandish/Hessianish ( :P ) enough to be the Red Hessian BS?

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[tansytansey]

Well... I dunno Ashes. Same could be said of the Bretonian capital ship like. Sure, the gunboat and dessie look similar, but then the battleship looks rather completely different.

I don't think you understand the principle if you think that. They do have varying shapes, but they keep the same design principles.

The other issue is that the gunboat was designed by Angel of Mercy then cruiser redesigned by Luis and now battleship made by Hades. Three different modellers mean three different models,

Lame cop-out excuse. It's just modellers being lazy and building what they want to instead of doing research and keeping with existing designs.

Example is the Rogue/Molly line. Vanilla ships were designed by DA, Greyhound by me, Barghest by AoM, Gunboat and Destroyer by Doom. Does that give us an excuse to make them look completely different from their design principles? No.

but I'll be honest with you and say that I would actually hate having the cruiser and battleship being just bigger versions of the gunboat. It would be boring IMO. So as long as the textures are consistent with the rest of the current Hessian line, I think the models will look similar enough.

Again, completely missing the point. I never said they should look like bigger versions of the Gunboat, that's closed minded thinking. I just said they should keep the same design principles given by the Gunboat. After all, AoM is the father of the Hessian line.

Textures, dear modelers.
They make the ships look like they're from the same faction.

Shows how much you know about modelling. A cube with Rheinland textures would still be a cube.

The gunboat isn't actually pretty - sorry to the modeller - but it's ewww.

Rheinland Ships aren't supposed to be pretty. They're utility ships, designed to work, not to play. They are beautiful in their own industrial way.

It's also horrible in PvP, but this set aside it still isn't fitting for hessians and should be redone too.

Lol. A ship is only as good as it's pilot.

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Image turned into a URL because it made your sig too tall. -Zuke
|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Shagohad]

Then why don't you do it, Ashes? And what is the point?

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"THE HULL HAS BEEN BREACHED AND THE SCIENCE IS LEAKING OUT!"

[Jinx]

there are some factions that drasticly change fundamental designs throughout their shipline - or actually, i can only think of one at the moment.

kusari

the battleship, which is so different to the other capital ships is produced by samura i believe, the destroyer and gunboat are produced by kishiro ( i might be wrong though )

when we look at bretonia, all the capital ships share similar characteristics. - they have a separare "head" piece, which is usually a rounded hull segment. they have a somewhat elongated body segment, which extends into two vertical frame elements on the gunboat. - but usually, they are all shaped in a way that they start off thick and end thin in the rear.
the destroyer makes use of the gunboats vertical frame - but incorporates it as a separare module instead of making it a seamless part of the mainbody. and the battleship surprisingly also shows the same element - just below the bridge section. but due ot size and compactness, it is only a little "hook" instead of a real frame.

basic characteristics prevail. ( from an artistic point of view ) - even without a skin around the meshes.




lets take a look at the hessian fighters.


their design is long necked and triangle shaped with prominent wings in the rear. - all in all, they are more horizontal than vertical.

luis' cruiser follows that general design by basicly enlarging a fighter and adding details that suggest that its a large ship.

the battleship by hades stands out from a design point of view. - it does not follow the same line in any characteristic.



BUT ... i m not saying it doesn t fit. - as i pointed out with the kusari example... even a vanilla faction shows that a ship of the same faction can look greatly different.


think of it like that:

- RL = many competing cooperations that try to achieve a contract with a wealthy faction. each one has its own design and proposition. - the "best" and probably "cheapest" one gets the contract.

- start trek reality = planets are only one set, one colony and a handful of people. for the most part, its always one faction per planet - and one person speaking for all of them. - thats a GREATLY simplified society.


in other words .... it looks different - but thats not a problem from a RP point of view. - why i consider it a problem is that a first impression made me think of a rheinlandish mako. - and there the only problem is that i find it funny to think of hessians flying their most expensive ship around that makes a mockery out of their ideals ( seeing that BHG are not their best buddies )

a battleship is a platform for warfare... but also a symbol. a faction producing it doesn t only want to add some supportive firepower....

... a faction with a battleship wants to make a point... and the point is "look what we can do! - this is ours - and you can see it on every detail that it is OURS!" - it is a status symbol ( literally )

maybe it is just the narrowminded me... but i cannot see hessians to be proud of something that other factions associate with the older Mako produced in o-56

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Dusty Lens]

My sentiments somewhat echo Jinx's... I think.

I think the model offered up is a fine one. It's a good bit of work and looks quite good for a Rheinland heavy.

But I don't think it fits in with the design characteristics of the Hessians. Though I feel similarly about the gunboat, granted.

I feel that the proposed cruiser comes much closer. You take a look at the cruiser and go "ah ha, Hessian".

I look at the battleship and, while it's recognizably Rheinland, it's not a Hessian vessel. Mayhap the idea is that you guys stole it or something similar. Sure sure. I think I remember Vlad saying you had someone from the military in the Hessians so maybe he stole a bunch of them or maybe he took the blueprints. You know, from the blueprint room. On that note I was well amused to note the fevered production of saliva at any model which graced the thread. There was one back there of an actual Osiris which was deemed acceptable at once. Comon guys.

Maybe you guys could tweak the model you've been presented up a bit to enforce your own personality. I'm sure you can do that while still holding to a ship which is more or less an Osiris.

Getting a model into the mod can be tricky. Getting a replacement in down the road can be trickier. Why not take the time to make sure you get it right the first time? Add some of your wheel thingies. Steal a little bit from Star Trek. Maybe a nice forward cannon, those are cool right? Modelers love messing around with their designs up to the point where they need to hitbox and hardpoint them. Just have them do little adjustments here and there until you're totally down and then break their knees and drag them off to the hitboxing cave.

Also. Ashes. Crimony man. Crimony.

[tansytansey]

Then why don't you do it, Ashes?

While I am a fan of the notion that if you don't like how someone else is doing it, then do it yourself, I currently have other modelling obligations that need to be filled. Namely my own battleship, a set of fighters requested from me, and I am also doing some 3D work for a TV show pilot, which is currently consuming most of my time. Otherwise I would be doing this, and I'd be doing it for free, too. Offering a prize reward for a model is the wrong incentive, IMO. You'll get modellers who are only interested in the cash, not completing a high-quality model.

kusari

the battleship, which is so different to the other capital ships is produced by samura i believe, the destroyer and gunboat are produced by kishiro ( i might be wrong though )

I disagree that the designs are that fundamentally different. All three ships share the same basic "boat" shape, the Battleship shares with the Gunboat the traditional kusari blades and fans, and all three ships possess circle-like reactors. All three ships have the same concept of a temple-like bridge, and have a relatively flat top side.

On that note I was well amused to note the fevered production of saliva at any model which graced the thread. There was one back there of an actual Osiris which was deemed acceptable at once. Comon guys.

That's because your average Dev Forum +1er is easier to please than a 15 year old boy.

Oh wait...

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Image turned into a URL because it made your sig too tall. -Zuke
|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Vladimir]

So. What i'd still want to see is flatter middle thingy, the whole model becoming flatter, too.I love the proportions of Luis's model around 2 or 3 page. As for Hessian feel, well, it could probably have more "sharp" appearance. And h ammer-is-pick is fine too, where did it go btw?

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[Hades]

a battleship is a platform for warfare... but also a symbol. a faction producing it doesn t only want to add some supportive firepower....

... a faction with a battleship wants to make a point... and the point is "look what we can do! - this is ours - and you can see it on every detail that it is OURS!" - it is a status symbol ( literally )

maybe it is just the narrowminded me... but i cannot see hessians to be proud of something that other factions associate with the older Mako produced in o-56

At least two RHA members in this thread have each said they liked it, the second in-command added me on Skype to tell me that he liked it. So the question is, who is a better judge of what the Hessians would be proud of? The Red Hessians themselves or the rest of the population, who are not a part of the former?

Anyway, FreeLancer is packed full of instances where their battleship and even their entire capital ship line looks almost nothing like their fighters, Liberty, for instance. The Fighters look similar to each other but they share almost no resemblance to the cruiser or dreadnought, both of which share almost no features with each other besides windows, which are a very common occurrence on capital ships (the Discovery Liberty gunboat isn't included since it's just the cruiser with the front cut off, shrunken, and modified a little). This trend goes for just about every faction in Sirius, the Kusari snubs share little with their capitals, the fins and stupid Japanese fans being about the only thing. Same goes for Rheinland. So based off this train of thought, perhaps I've followed this well, perhaps not, but I think the RHA should be the ones to judge, not their opposition or people who've never seen a RHA ship up close, or flown one at all.

I will, I guess, try to make it be a bit more in-line with the Snubs (which I already feel I achieved), which are generally sleaker Rheinland fighters. The hump in particular I thought was more reminicent of the RM battleship and not the Mako, as the hump has much more in common with the former than the latter. Adding wings, no matter the size, is a big no no, however. Not only have the RHA said they don't want them, they're impractical on a ship this size.

Lame cop-out excuse. It's just modellers being lazy and building what they want to instead of doing research and keeping with existing designs.

Example is the Rogue/Molly line. Vanilla ships were designed by DA, Greyhound by me, Barghest by AoM, Gunboat and Destroyer by Doom. Does that give us an excuse to make them look completely different from their design principles? No.

Again, completely missing the point. I never said they should look like bigger versions of the Gunboat, that's closed minded thinking. I just said they should keep the same design principles given by the Gunboat. After all, AoM is the father of the Hessian line.

Actually, the differing of modelers can mean a lot, the battleship by me, the cruiser by Luis, and the rest by AoM were not made in conjunction or is there a clear convention to follow aside from opinions, and we modelers have one too. Each and every modeler will have a different opinion on how something should be made and how unique to the rest they want it to look or not.

On the second point, the Barghest is just an enlarged Vanilla rouge fighter that has few model alterations aside from the tubes added. The Greyhound generally follows the design principles of the LR vanilla fighters to the letter, with a few shape differences. No one said they had to look completely different, and no one said they had to look almost the same, either.

And AoM may be the father, but he is not the law.