Current Order Status

[Shryke]

I didn't said no one blamed indies, I said no one blaimed indies completely and totally, which you stated that we are doing.

No, you didn't. You also had one of your members put forth the idea to make Order invite only (ololol).

As I've said, the Order is regarded poorly because you as a faction do not do anything to separate yourselves from your indies. You're probably the only vanilla based official faction to do so. Furthermore, your leadership is ineffective, with Hot Rod stating that poor leadership is "in-RP" (ololol).

So, distance yourselves from your indies by:

a) Not caring so much about what they do.
b) Not taking the blame for their actions, as no one can rightfully blame an official faction for the actions of indies (if they do, simply ignore)
c) Get new leaders

But yeah, if that's not a worthwhile contribution then I will excuse myself from this thread.

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[Rodent]

Really? So if I go back and re-read the thread again, I'll find zero instances of Order| members blaming indies?

Also, Hot Rod, Order having poor leadership is in-RP? That's just about the stupidest thing that ever came out of anyone on this server.

You guys are hopeless.

Good job misinterpreting me. I meant that the RP loss of alliances and various stuff could be attributed to that, like our alliance with SCRA and NLH breaking, which could be pointed as an indication of poor leadership. not any OORP problems, which I take full responsibility for and will do my best to fix. But I guess your mindset is set to interpret things that way, so never mind.

And connor, I do believe that among the huge amount of people that maintain Order characters, a sizable portion
consists of people who like role-play, but are either marginalized, or bored, or lack things to do. Again, I admit that Order runs a very insular show for the most part and our independent players have a few reasons to dislike us and the way we do things.

This is due to various reasons. one is the traditional Indie=lolwut thinking, which stops many interactions. Second is that the volume of the order playerbase makes it hard to coordinate long-term RPs with independents who are not in regular and direct contact. My personal opinion is that while problem-makers exist, there are good people as well. As you said, the main problem is communication. I respect a decision to play independent of the official faction, but if you want to stay in touch with the general RP flow (since an official faction, by organization is best equipped to guide the factional RP) then you must build bridges as well.

But we both know that there are also many troublemakers in The Order, over which we cannot exercise much control. That much is known, and it is up to the other side whether to hold us accountable in-RP ( as we should be, but cannot carry it out) or not. With most reasonable people, such things can be worked out.

As for a motivated High command, that is a trouble with many many factions, not just The Order. You hit it on the head mostly, but I'll just like to say this. Pointing out problems is easy, you just point, and someone else has to work for a few weeks to solve it. But if you really want to see problems solved, you can get involved. The extent of your involvement depends on you, I am not asking anyone to solve our problems for us, but this is a large burden and things go slowly.

This thread and it's constructive feedback posts have helped, if you want to help more and beyond this, you can always contact me or any other Order guy. It's understandable if you don't want to help, just understand that we'll work on these problems as much as our time, motivation, and schedule allows.

[Jeremy Hunter]

Shryke

Distancing from the indies? Rule over them but say "we have no relations with them?"

If thats what your saying, read on. If not, please clarify.

If so...my 2 cents




Distancing from the indies will just worsen the problem. If the Officals say "Screw you, we'll ignore you and look down on you as inferior, but you will still listen to us, you know how bad things will get?

That would just cause a civil war, with the much larger Indie population against the Officals.

Breaking relations with those who are not officals will cause 80% of the nonlolwut indies to fight against the Officals, with a few Officals leaving and helping the Indies.

I know a civil war will spout, believe me.

Indies make up how much of this server? How much?

Order| does it, then if it gets better, more will jump on the bandwagon, and id wager Jameson would be one of the first(but I think, in reference to the Hisapnian forces, it would be good).

You alienate most of the Order...

63rd, TCG, Cerberus. Alienate these groups who are the best Order groups seen so far (TCG the best pewpewers)?

<strike>The indies are not the problem.</strike>

The relationship between Order| and Indies is.



EDIT...

Can this be fixed?

And indies arent the,COMPLETE problem.

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May you ever walk in the Light, Shizune.

[Cond0r]

As for a motivated High command, that is a trouble with many many factions, not just The Order. You hit it on the head mostly, but I'll just like to say this. Pointing out problems is easy, you just point, and someone else has to work for a few weeks to solve it. But if you really want to see problems solved, you can get involved. The extent of your involvement depends on you, I am not asking anyone to solve our problems for us, but this is a large burden and things go slowly.

Other factions obviously dont have problems which you are having. And you are wrong. YOU should solve these problems because it is YOUR obligation, because it is YOUR faction. You took up this responsibility when you took up the leadership in the order, and when your HC was formed. Other people shouldnt be fixing YOUR problems for YOU. Time ran out Im afraid. These problems have been present for more than half a year already, and you keep fixing them, while obviously, you cant.

You have changed leadership many times already but nothing within the faction has changed. It is obvious you cant do it, and I say again, you were given enough time. If you cant, step down and let another faction or leadership that is more interested in these problems solve them. And I do believe, like I said multiple times already, that this poll is showing you just that.

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[17:23:05] Mini Me: pls
[17:23:06] Mini Me: gtfo

[Jeremy Hunter]

Other factions obviously dont have problems which you are having. And you are wrong. YOU should solve these problems because it is YOUR obligation, because it is YOUR faction. You took up this responsibility when you took up the leadership in the order, and when your HC was formed. Other people shouldnt be fixing YOUR problems for YOU. Time ran out Im afraid. These problems have been present for more than half a year already, and you keep fixing them, while obviously, you cant.

You have changed leadership many times already but nothing within the faction has changed. It is obvious you cant do it, and I say again, you were given enough time. If you cant, step down and let another faction or leadership that is more interested in these problems solve them.

Rod told me he'd try.

Im willing to give him the chance.

Its his duty when he took over.

He took over what, a week ago? Not even two months.

Nothing happens quickly.

As long as there is change, I'm good. So is others I'm sure.

Give the new HC a chance already.

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May you ever walk in the Light, Shizune.

[Tommeh]

No, you didn't. You also had one of your members put forth the idea to make Order invite only (ololol).

As I've said, the Order is regarded poorly because you as a faction do not do anything to separate yourselves from your indies. You're probably the only vanilla based official faction to do so. Furthermore, your leadership is ineffective, with Hot Rod stating that poor leadership is "in-RP" (ololol).

So, distance yourselves from your indies by:

a) Not caring so much about what they do.
b) Not taking the blame for their actions, as no one can rightfully blame an official faction for the actions of indies (if they do, simply ignore)
c) Get new leaders

But yeah, if that's not a worthwhile contribution then I will excuse myself from this thread.

It is obviously you don't know how things in Order work, so I won't comment anything more on your post.

Other factions obviously dont have problems which you are having. And you are wrong. YOU should solve these problems because it is YOUR obligation, because it is YOUR faction. You took up this responsibility when you took up the leadership in the order, and when your HC was formed. Other people shouldnt be fixing YOUR problems for YOU. Time ran out Im afraid. These problems have been present for more than half a year already, and you keep fixing them, while obviously, you cant.

You have changed leadership many times already but nothing within the faction has changed. It is obvious you cant do it, and I say again, you were given enough time. If you cant, step down and let another faction or leadership that is more interested in these problems solve them. And I do believe, like I said multiple times already, that this poll is showing you just that.

So much wrong;
First thing, other factions don't have exactly the same problems, but very similar ones.
But that's cause no other factions are same as Order.
How the hell you can claim so sure that no one else has similar problems when you flame every non RHA faction whenever there is some discussion thread about their behaviour.
Gotta love when you think you know everything around here to be able making such statements.

When you finish Freelancer SP, Order are the main heroes, it's natural that a lot of new players is attracted to it, and when they hear about nice looking Order caps, everyone wants one.

Yes, other factions also have huge amounts of indies, but everywhere else there is more then one Official faction present.
Liberty has tons of LNS, but there is LPI, [LN] and =LSF= to keep an eye on them.
3 official factions where every faction has at least 2,3 high ranking people, and when you put it together, there is 6,7 people who can take a lot of work in organizing things.
Corsairs have also 3 official factions, any work related with communicating/organizing things with indies is divided on 6,7 people.

Outcasts have only 101st, and again everyone Q_Q how they don't treat indies well etc, basicly same thing as for Order.

Second thing,
We changed so many leaderships so often? Missinformed much, or just making up things to have something to show as your "arguments"
I have been Order| leader for over a year, till 2 weeks ago when Rod took over.

Third thing;
We should step down and allow someone else to take over? Who is willing to do that, tell me?
We worked our asses to bring some changes in Order for 4.86.
Things are already now getting bored, how would be nice that you know everything stays exactly the same even in 4.86?

Maybe we should step down, and then wait for what? For someone remember to make new Order faction?
Where are they now? If there is some people that are willing to fix things, why don't they speak up now.
It would be cowardless and lame from us to step down now when there is much work, although personally, I am thinking about it, but that's not my call, since I am not officialy in Order leadership anymore.

Time ran out I m afraid?

:D
Wait, who is counting what here? I thought we are all here for fun, not obligations and hard work.
And what gives you right to count anything? People won't and cant sacrifice their RL time cause something is "urgent" on internet according to your opinion.
You were the first one always talking how people take this game to serious.
But now suddenly when Order is in question, everything needs to be fixed in a week.

You keep bringing up things that have been said here already for 354356 times, just so you can get your chance to flame Order|, as you always were doing.
Every constructive critism you bring up, you manage to spoil with overreacted complaining.

Anyway, we got the message, poll shows things clearly, you can drop flaming now how we suck, and either help us, or stop caring.

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[McNeo]

Third thing;
We should step down and allow someone else to take over? Who is willing to do that, tell me?
We worked our asses to bring some changes in Order for 4.86.
Things are already now getting bored, how would be nice that you know everything stays exactly the same even in 4.86?

Maybe we should step down, and then wait for what? For someone remember to make new Order faction?
Where are they now? If there is some people that are willing to fix things, why don't they speak up now.
It would be cowardless and lame from us to step down now when there is much work, although personally, I am thinking about it, but that's not my call, since I am not officialy in Order leadership anymore.

This is exactly what would happen if the Order| ceased to be.

Someone would make a new order faction. Remember, there needs to be a power vacuum before it can be filled. It's even how businesses work. A few enterprising people see a niche in the market that no other company has exploited, they set up a company to make money by filling and catering to that niche. They don't set up that company before the niche makes itself known or relevant to society, because then their business would fail before they could make any money.

It's easy to invalidate the above by saying "Well, who will replace us?" and just keep repeating that line. However, the Order are a popular faction, and it will take six months at the absolute maximum, closer to one month (and another month for the officiality procedure) for a replacement to form. I'm pretty confident there still exists some ambition to shape the Order faction amongst the younger community members here.

Furthermore, Smokey actually said parts of what I said, just in a less tactful way.

Other factions obviously dont have problems which you are having. And you are wrong. YOU should solve these problems because it is YOUR obligation, because it is YOUR faction. You took up this responsibility when you took up the leadership in the order, and when your HC was formed. Other people shouldnt be fixing YOUR problems for YOU. Time ran out Im afraid. These problems have been present for more than half a year already, and you keep fixing them, while obviously, you cant.

Whether or not you think he's right, an aweful lot of people agree with him. Anecdotal evidence of course, but I havent a particularly high opinion of the Order|, and those I spoke to about it a few months back didn't either. You'll find alot of that sentiment swirling around under the surface. I could highlight other factions that fall under a similar bracket, Order| certainly isn't alone, or the worst for that matter.

As for the assertion that alienating yourselves from your indies would result in a cataclysmic armageddon of apocalyptic proportions, the Liberty Navy distanced itself quite well from it's independent players. At the time, and I imagine now, the faction didn't go out of its way to persecute independent players, but nor did we go to lengths to take the blame for things that they did. This is how we avoided major fallouts with Kusari over Siege Cruisers in their space escorting shipments of what their law deemed to be contraband, and how we avoided a fallout with Bretonia over a Liberty Dreadnought plus assorted stuff chasing a Kusari battleship into Leeds. Neither event should've happened, therefore neither event had any lasting impact.

It will take a lot of convincing to show me that no longer taking responsibility for your indies will cause an implosion of the status quo. Then again, you don't have to convince anyone of anything, least of all me.

[Jeremy Hunter]

Id rather not have the Order| fall or distance from indies because:

1: TCG, TOP (whats left), Cerberus, and 63rd would be locked in a power struggle, with OSS if they pop back up. All sides would struggle while I at least would hide away and let the carnage happen. All other indies and choose sides, and,we'd have,another SCRA Civil War, minus the RP.

2: Yeah, fine. Order| should distance itself and be like the Navy. What exactly would that acvomplish? I dont see anything but those who hate the current Order-Indie relations waging war.

3: we have different thoughts. If the Order| distances itself from the indies, then us indies should then form our own OHC. If the Officals wont care, then who will?

I agree with Somkey on its thier job.

But Rod has been Order Fleet Admiral for 2 weeks. He needs time.

/2 cents more.



I should clarify what I mean by war:

Forum arguments, flaming, NO U, we're better, and loads of pewpew ingame.

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May you ever walk in the Light, Shizune.

[McNeo]

1: TCG, TOP (whats left), Cerberus, and 63rd would be locked in a power struggle, with OSS if they pop back up. All sides would struggle while I at least would hide away and let the carnage happen. All other indies and choose sides, and,we'd have,another SCRA Civil War, minus the RP.

Why do you care about that? It's the admins who decide which one becomes official if they all go for it, and those who sling the most mud stand the least chance of becoming official. The only way this can be exploited is if a bunch of them get together and conspire, one or more of them forfeiting their chances of officiality to degrade a rival faction, allowing one run by their friend to stay out of the 'war' as you put it and become favoured. I'd place this likelihood at slim to none, as the admins aren't suckers and will likely cotton on to that.

2: Yeah, fine. Order| should distance itself and be like the Navy. What exactly would that acvomplish? I dont see anything but those who hate the current Order-Indie relations waging war.

It would accomplish near enough the same things it has for Liberty; you'll be able to conduct diplomacy without constantly worrying about idiots wearing your tag and ID flying their shiny Osiris into their main planet and declaring an arbitrary no-fire-zone (for example).

3: we have different thoughts. If the Order| distances itself from the indies, then us indies should then form our own OHC. If the Officals wont care, then who will?

If indies form their own OHC, that would be -great-. Order| would then be able to effectively communicate with every indie through their own command structure. The barrier to this is, however, the same as it is for Liberty indies. The latter don't stick around for very long, and for the most part, want to be called Lord-Admiral-the-Great without the trappings of responsibility that come with such title. If Order indies were to form their own command structure, that would be great and I would expect to see a tendancy towards cooperation again.

Perhaps it's important for me to say that the Liberty Navy has never in its history distanced itself from independent players who were willing to work with them. But let me say, the vast majority are not interested, so that's generally what you see. I do recall a few excellent independent players that recieved full attention from the factions.

[Jeremy Hunter]

1: I care about that because, even though I said I would stay out, I might fail.

With them all trying to become offical, the Order would be so focused on that all RP might be eclipsed.

My thought.

2: Still, as much as that might help, I dont like it.

3: i'd love for that. Hell, if Jack didnt Ragequit, I'd talk wih him and with the active indie groups to form an indie OHC comprised off the leader of each Indie group active (TCG (dear god...), Cerberus, and 63rd). But, I cant do that easily without Skype mobile at least.

This is also why I want the current OHC to have Indie admirals besides n00bl3t.

Hell, I should run it by Rod actually...*goes to PMs*

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May you ever walk in the Light, Shizune.