Hawk the same applies to OC NPCs and the IND. If the rep board sin;t set right. 10st may not shoot the IND, but the NPCs will. How doe we RP that? We pretend the NPCs aren't informed of the overall stance therefore they're doing what they think is right. Were the situation similar to the Junker one, we'd open up negotiations with the OC to try and get their NPCs off our back. Simply put, NPC's should be treated like morons who haven't been told what to do yet.
Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.
Reverend, I'll have to admit that I hadn't quite looked at it that way. That gives me an entirely new perspective and I think I am going to take your advice.
Edit: The rest of you can stop screaming now, I think we have a plan.
' Wrote:A bug is something which the game does which it was not intended to do. Most of the time it's harmful to gameplay.
The Kusari Exiles are a player-made faction with player-made reputation. It's working as intended for the Kusari Exiles. It is not a bug.
However, if that diplomacy is not working out for a certain party, then that party should try to address the powers that be in the area to try and change the situation. Zelot is a bit abrasive, yeah, but he's said he's open to Roleplaying out the situation as it's going on.
I think you missed the point of the sentence you quoted.
Zelot said that orginally Junker rep was not set correctly to the Exile faction, thus a bug. Said bug was corrected without any forum role play.
The issue here is not that the Exiles are shooting the Junkes. The bug is that Bretonian NPCs are shooting Junkers merely because an Exile NPC is nearby.
Thing is - Zelot/Del/AD are ignoring that issue and saying that the Junker players are complaining about the Exiles shooting the Junkers. They aren't.
No amount of RP can change the fact that Bretonian NPCs are acting in a manner which doesn't jive with their current stance towards Junkers. That is as Del said - they are more than welcome in all parts of Bretonia.
' Wrote:The issue here is not that the Exiles are shooting the Junkes. The bug is that Bretonian NPCs are shooting Junkers merely because an Exile NPC is nearby.
Thing is - Zelot/Del/AD are ignoring that issue and saying that the Junker players are complaining about the Exiles shooting the Junkers. They aren't.
No amount of RP can change the fact that Bretonian NPCs are acting in a manner which doesn't jive with their current stance towards Junkers. That is as Del said - they are more than welcome in all parts of Bretonia.
Well, Daedric is right about that. With all my wild ideas I had overlooked that one. There is no rational reason for any Bretonian ships to be firing on a Junker unless it was confirmed that the Junker had done something wrong.
I wasn't focusing on this too much not knowing how easy it was to change something like this. Then I discovered something else. I've been playing here for 3.5 years now. In all that time I've had several characters that were hostile to BHG for whatever reason. However, it never caused a problem for BHG ships to fly near me. Sometime in the last few weeks, things changed so that when a BHG NPC shows up every lawful ship around starts shooting. It has gotten to the point that I can't even RP with my light fighter in NY anymore if the server count is too low. I'm not exactly sure why this was changed, but now that I see that it HAS changed, I know this issue with the Bretonian NPC's can be changed as well.
I wasn't ignoring the fact Bret NPC's were shooting junkers. I just know I cannot fix that.
As it's got nothing to do with bret rep towards junkers, merely bret empathy towards Exiles. When the Exile see the Junker it shoots, turning everything else hostile to said junker. I concur that should not be happening. However it's not a quick fix I can make.
My suggestion was to RP something that would actually have the Exiles and Junkers at a neutralish standpoint meaning we could reasonably set the rep to about -0.5 and that make sense. This would alleviate the issue completely and in a matter of days, rather than weeks.
Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.
My apologies then. I'm still not a fan of forcing a group of players to role play in order to resolve a bug. Nor am I a fan of the attitude and general disrespect Zelot has shown in this thread to other members of this community.
The problem with forcing Hawk and crew to role play this out is that they are essentially at Zelot's mercy over a bug. If his attitude in this thread is any indicator, he will abuse that fact.
If you were to set Junker rep to the neutral but cannot dock threshold all you would be doing is moving the 'bug' from the Bretonian NPCs to the Exile NPCs. The key point is that you'd be making it so the bug doesn't grief any player. This would be temporary until a more permanent resolution can be found.
AD suggested moving the Exile ship away from Stokes and mentioned you'd likely need to adjust Exile patrols. I know that doesn't take an enourmous effort as I've spoken with Dab about adding/modifying patrols. That would seem like a good solution to be pushed out in 4.87.
' Wrote:I have been able to avoid the battleship somewhat. I am about +4.5 bars positive to BMM and they don't shoot at me right away, so I can come into stokes from the rear and I'm okay. My problem now is the kusari destroyer and gunboat spawn that comes to me, and is not possible to avoid.
This player appears to have no empathy problems with +4.5 rep. I would volunteer to test the empathy, but I know from experience that more often than not, the police factions are the ones who are most often white to Junkers and my BPA/BAF/BMM rep is well into the negatives without being hostile. I'd expect the Exiles to cause the BMM to shoot me over the Exiles with a rep like that. I dunno about the squiggles, but it sounds like an empathy problem; it's not a bug. Working as intended so Gallic (Freelancers, trade ships, etc.) don't fly up to Glasgow, Stokes, LD-14, or wherever the civilian stations are and then don't get shot at by the stations while Exile NPCs are shooting them. You know, because Bretonia only has the largest number of civilian factions around and making all of them hostile is rather untenable sometimes. My Reavers sure as hell weren't hostile to those factions; BAF and BPA empathy did it for me.
That said, I've observed from both the inside and outside of the squiggles that their policy when facing adversity is most often complaining wildly and doing nothing constructive to help. No one can blame anyone for trying to Roleplay through a situation, especially when invited to try, but reserving yourself to defeat is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I mean, look at this opportunity: Kusari hates the Junkers. Here they are behind enemy lines, stuck without supplies, with allies that dislike them, at best. What better a time to prove your worth? Supplying people who don't have supplies in hostile territories is something of a Junker strength. What's going to happen to Kusari perception of Junkers when those soldiers eventually go back? Talk about a shrewd business move.
But I suppose assuming corruption on the basis of personal hatred is a better idea.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
' Wrote:But I suppose assuming corruption on the basis of personal hatred is a better idea.
I'm not a Congressman and I'm the only one assuming anything you could consider corruption. My assumption is based off of 'lots responses in this thread.
As for your explanation - I'm sure the BAF or BPA NPCs in the area will cause said Gallic players to be shot at by Stokes. Or were the developers not wise enough to put BAF/BPA NPCs back around Stokes?
Basically, using your explanation of the issue - you're punishing Junker players in order to prevent lolwutters from docking to one station.
While I am not a fan of some of the whine I've seen from members of the Congress over the years - they've a valid point here and the fact that so many people telling them all they do is whine and not role play speaks volumes about our community here.
Bacon, do you have something constructive to add here? I mean really? I have already stated days ago that we are in the process of RPing this just to appease those who say if we don't do it their way it is wrong. I do agree with much of what has been said though and I have always supported that Exiles should have a hostile attitude toward Junkers. There is no complaining there. I have only taken issues with two things. First the abusive and disrespectful way that people have been treated for expressing their opinions and second, the imbalances in the way npcs react that has nothing to do with RP. There is no amount of RP that can solve either of these problems.
I understand what you are trying to do here, but this thread is progressing nicely and I would ask you to stop unless you have something more constructive to add.
EDIT: Thank you Daedric. It's good to come to agreement about something. It gives me hope. And Bacon, I do think what Daedric said is correct and the fact that you cannot even address my faction without using a derogatory term backs up what he is saying.
You know what, I am done with this. I am tired of being vilified and demonized because I play characters that are hostile to the Junkers. Hawk, you just tell me what you want the relations between the Exiles and the Junkers to be and that is what it will be. You want us to hold hands and cuddle, fine. I am over it. After 3 or 4 years of being told that you hold personal bias against a group just because you play your characters the way the role play lays out is, I think too much for anyone. Hell, we might as well just get rid of all hostile reps for the junkers, that way there will never be any hostile NPCs and you cant just go around as the neutral to all trading corp that you want the congress to be. Really I am done. I really dont care if you want to rp it out at this point anyway, its not worth my time to deal with people who are so adamant that I personally hate them. Tell me what you want relations to be between the junkers and the exiles and I will tell Del to set it up. Really there is nothing in a game that is worth this kind of hassle and personal hostility and bias toward someone. I have played the role of the big, bad boogey man for the Junkers for far too long I think. God I miss Rudo, he understood what this was, but the rest, you, Tinkerbell just cant seem to understand that it's not a personal thing, it is that I want to play my characters and factions the way they are supposed to be player. Whatever, I am over it, post what you want in here and it will be done, because clearly to not accede to the wishes of the Junkers means that you are an awful bitter person, and that's just not who I am, regardless of what the Junkers have spent years trying to convince people of. You win, the whine has finally broken me and I just dont care anymore. Who needs RP in this community anymore anyway, when you can just complain and demonize the people who disagree with you oorp until they havent the energy to argue about it anymore.
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