Zoner No Fire Zones Update

[tyro]

Nobody says it couldn't be NFZ around Freeports, if you want it, just respect it.

We just say, that we won't enforce it and we won't settle the complaints. ie, we won't defend corsairs against hessians or bounty hunters against corsairs, or anyone else. We will defend exclusively our people - Zoners.

NFZ should be respected by everybody in their own interest, but if they all want to kill each other rather than use the safe port, then it's their wish, and it's not our business.

In the past we tried to, but everybody were against us, everybody accused us about bias and not being neutral, everybody threatened us a war or even lead a war against us. so why we must keep NFZ if nobody wants and respects it?

Freeport 5 uses standard new policies with no modifications.

[Doc Holliday]

I see the Zoner bashing has re-surfaced. People have this beef with NFZ's. It's nothing more than an RP tool to keep one's base of operation safe and those that live on them. Think about it, if someone mortars a base, it WILL receive damage in all likelihood. THAT'S the reason behind an NFZ. It's not an issue of the Zoners hating this group or that group.

As bad as many "enemy" players are (an Outcast running from a Corsair and docking on Freeport 9, for example), many an indie Zoner trader is just as bad. They get pirated, refuse to pay and make a run for a Freeport under fire. The rules were long ago modified to address this. Now it's a PVP loss by rule for running from a fight. Why the pirate wants to shoot up the base because the staff is harboring an enemy is just stupid in my book.

We've seen it everywhere. Rival factions claiming, "you harbor our enemies." Freeport 9 now has no NFZ as the Corsairs put the squeeze on Zoners there over raiding Outcasts from Omicron Eta.
Freeport 2 gets a lot of flack. I've seen BOTH Liberty Naval and Rheinland Naval ships under fire take refuge. Again, "you are harboring our enemies."
I sometimes think that people would rather dock in a losing situation to take the heat off of them and put it on the Zoners.

I also get a kick out of it when two people drag the fight closer to a Freeport and finger point at each other as to who started it. I don't care who started it if I come in the middle of it. Most of those fighters have taken it back away from the base as a courtesy. Those who haven't? Well, I have engaged them before.
I love that spot where an offender keeps pushing and when he finally gets engaged, he acts offended that a Zoner fired upon him.
I do know that there are other NFZ's around Sirius that aren't as publicized yet no one complains about.

I've said my peace on this. Baffin Law remains as it always has. I can claim neutrality there. Why? We don't interfere with passer bys in the system. We don't care who you are, what you're carrying or where you're headed with it. You pass through, you don't tax or shoot and avoid Pueblo, all will be fine.

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[MFE]Med Force One | Tales of Recovery|Med Force Enterprises

[Kharon]

Well to me in my laweful RP-chars Zoners are from now on potential owners of piratebases = Pirates.
I will treat them all just as all the other Freelancer criminal Suspects.

...Please stop for a scan*!
*(Scan of your vessel aka check for your name in the criminals Databank might take a while)

All further according usual criminals treatment Directive:

#1 gimi a reason...
#1.1 move and your dead.
#1.2 comply or your dead.
#2 Your officialy neutral and never been unlaweful? How nice, my guns are too!

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[Hielor]

Well to me in my laweful RP-chars Zoners are from now on potential owners of piratebases = Pirates.
I will treat them all just as all the other Freelancer criminal Suspects.

...Please stop for a scan*!
*(Scan of your vessel aka check for your name in the criminals Databank might take a while)

All further according usual criminals treatment Directive:

#1 gimi a reason...
#1.1 move and your dead.
#1.2 comply or your dead.
#2 Your officialy neutral and never been unlaweful? How nice, my guns are too!

I fail to understand how this change makes Zoners more unlawful than they were before. If anything, it makes them more lawful, since they are no longer protecting pirates from lawfuls within that 5 or 10km bubble.

Any pirate who would attempt to pirate people within 5 or 10km of a base is a noob anyway.

[Kharon]

I fail to understand how this change makes Zoners more unlawful than they were before. If anything, it makes them more lawful, since they are no longer protecting pirates from lawfuls within that 5 or 10km bubble.

Any pirate who would attempt to pirate people within 5 or 10km of a base is a noob anyway.

Not unlaweful like clear tagged or iff`ed hostiles.
Never wrote that. Read again if you like!

Just like Freelancers...

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[Jeryl]

Always been like that. However, you did not even read the first few posts.

I did,I read the entire thread,however,if you will get docking rights restriction if you shoot Zoners,in or out,of NFZ,why not remove the entire thing completely?Or is that the same?I don't believe you guys would let a guy who pirates you off,especially if the guy has access to your Freeports,Planets and other bases.
Btw.If a Zoner brings smuggled stuff to a Freeport right in front of an authority,will you let the authorities bash the Zoner?Or will you protect him and possibly get KOS'd?Also,what happens if a Zoner brings anti-<insert criminal faction here> commodities to your freeport and do it front of the <insert criminal faction here>,will you let the guy who kills the Zoner off,or will you FR5 FR5 FR5?

Now i already see some major Pirate Group forming up big in Bering, doing attacks into Texas on LNS for fun.

I will attack your arguement with a few words:
You are allowed to kill them.
Harbour pirates?You are allowed to go there and kill them.Harbour lawfuls?You are allowed to kill them.They are just as neutral as before,anybody in Freeport NFZ excluding Zoners are now free game.No Zoner is going to tell you that you can't.No Zoner is gonna FR5 you.Nobody can complain about that.Go into Bering and cut them off before they enter Texas.

And the Liberty-Rheinland war?You are allowed to kill the enemy side,even in NFZ.They cannot complain to you anymore.And if they dock before you kill them?Too bad.

Enforce No Fire Zones?Riiiiiiighhtttt.I think you enforce No Fighting Zoners,kill a Zoner around Freeports,FR5,kill a Zoner elsewhere,FR5.

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Stop it.Seriously,stop whining.Stop Q_Qing and stop trolling.Stop exaggerating things which are minor,stop whining about stuff which happens every time the blue moon appears.Stop Q_Qing because people do not comply to your wishes.This is not your personal universe where you can lord everyone around and judge people using your emotions.Think logically.Think.Just think.
I'm gone.Goodbye.

[blubba]

A No Fire on Zoners Zone then?

I don't see why thats unreasonable. The Zoners don't want to be fired on. Who can blame them?
This applies even to their allies Kharon so I don't see where your complaint lies. It's only for Zoners. It doesn't say GMG, nor Order. Therefore it won't say 'Pirate Roberts' or whatever you are fearing in your posts.
In order to maintain their neutrality, they CAN'T protect pirates...anymore than lawfuls.

Aside from that, will there be a single general post made which includes Zoner base rules which includes specific base ones as well?

It would help people to:
a) abide (or break) said rules.
b) Understand the encountered RP and react accordingly.


@ Doc

Freeport 9 now has no NFZ as the Corsairs put the squeeze on Zoners there over raiding Outcasts from Omicron Eta.

I thought it was because the Outcasts (and hunters) were basing off the Freeport. Excuse my ignorance if I'm talking out of my hat here.

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[Hielor]

Not unlaweful like clear tagged or iff`ed hostiles.
Never wrote that. Read again if you like!

Sure, I'll read again.
What you claim you said:

Just like Freelancers...

What you actually said:

Well to me in my laweful RP-chars Zoners are from now on potential owners of piratebases = Pirates.
I will treat them all just as all the other Freelancer criminal Suspects.

You have no more reason to believe that Zoners are "potential owners of piratebases" now than you did before. In fact, you have *less* reason to believe that, since you are now free to fly in there and shoot the pirates.

[Jinx]

@Kharon:

i am not entirely sure you understand the lore and roleplay of the zoners - and the concept of freeports.

however - in order to execute your own roleplay, maybe your char does not require to understand it - if you are too rude or offensive however - you may find yourself permanently ( and irreversibly ) rep changed "red" to zoners. ( no matter if you re a pirate or a lawful... and if you are backed up by your superior or an entire faction - you might drag this faction into it - again no matter if its lawful or unlawful ) <--- this IS a threat that looms over everyone who misbehaves. it might be applied or it might not be - but that is entirely up to the zoners and no one else. - it is the SAME power that ANY faction has to rep-hack zoners red to them ( provided sufficient evidence exists ) - many houses cannot really red-rep hack ZG though - cause ZG are NOT allowed there anyway - while lawfuls ARE allowed even at ZG bases quite often ( unless you forgot that - so yes... there is an unfairness... in favour of the lawfuls there )

and that is the entire point of it


zoners are in charge of zoner installations - you behave like a guest, you re good and allowed to enjoy the entire range of benefits that come from a neutral station.

you do NOT behave like a guest, you are thrown out - and in more severe cases, banned.



for those who still do not understand the idea...




"lets say - "Fancy Clothing" ( a clothing shop ppl just love to buy stuff in ) is basicly "free for all". everyone is welcome as long as they behave. "Fancy Clothing" does not ask for your background before you buy a T-shirt. - if you are sufficiently polite, you may make your order and you will get what you asked for.

now - imagine you behave like a pig, threaten others with a weapon - or jump behind the counter, harrass the personell and steal the money.

you WILL be banned from "Fancy Clothing"- if you re lucky - from that shop only - if you are unlucky, you may be banned from "Fancy Clothing" entirely.

"Fancy Clothing" does not make a great difference between the good family dad and the filthy thief. - you behave badly, you get banned."


does that make "Fancy Clothing" unlawful? or even potentially unlawful? - hardly... it makes "Fancy Clothing" not only lawful but it also increases its responsibility towards those that DO behave like guests. cause if YOU are a guest that behaves - you really want the landlord of the establishment to throw out those who misbehave. - does that make the landlord a bad person... or suspect?

if you now say - but we have more extreme cases in freelancer - like police and mass murderers. thats the point of a freeport. - a freeport will harbour the mass murderer if he behaves - a freeport does not ask for his background, nor apply prejudice. - and as long as the mass murderer behaves appropriately - he WILL find a place that welcomes him there.
if the police however does not behave like it is expected of them as "guests" there are two possible scenarios:

- the station will inform the superior of the misbehaving officer and the superior has a word with his man to put him right.
- the station informs the superior - and the superior starts to threaten the station command ( which usually happens on disco, cause RP isn t always logical ) with forcibly taking the station over or destroying it.



all that however is hardly related to the new concept of the NFZ



the NFZ always only had ONE purpose that so many players simply do NOT understand. - the NFZ are never there to protect anyone but zoners and zoner property. zoners couldn t care less if officer john doe or pirate jane doe want to kill each other - as long as they do it outside the NFZ.

problems arose from the fact that NFZ magically attract players ( or have done so ) - so instead of fighting their battles in the VAST space of each system, the players crowded together in a small 5k radius around the station.

could have saved the server plenty of resources to shrink systems to the size of a pea - cause ppl don t get the idea of "how many space there is" anyway.




the current change allows:

- pirates to pursue and fight lawfuls into and up to the vicinity of a freeport
- lawfuls to pursue and fight pirates into and up to the vicinity of a freeport
( for those who don t understand that - you may see that its the same rights for both sides )

- however ... whoever fires at a zoner, zoner property of harms zoner interests WILL become subject of an investigation. consequences are applied regardless of their "side" and are down to the severity of the security breach.


i cannot think of a way to be any clearer about the fairness of the system.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Kharon]

@Jinx

Thanks for the detailed view. Nevertheless i have to disagree in 3 IMHO essential Points or more fitting add 2 other Perspectives:

1.
Freeports have been "reliable and secure" exchange points for everyone. Some will object at this with already pointed out arguments but in practice it has become a fact in Freelancer that even two in RP very hostile to eachother Players where able to do some "secure privat" biz there (buy a codegun, CAU for example).

This is now spoiled. I wouldnt trust it anymore. (Spare me the trivial argument "then dont do that" please, because thats not the Point. Some benifit for everyone is lost with this new "NFZ" (doesnt deserve the name anymore actualy)

2.
I wrote this: With sovereignty comes responsibility.
This is very obviouse in RL! A big power gives a damn about some other powers sovereignty if responsibility is denied or ignored. 2 Namedroppings get you right there in its center in real: Afghanistan & Al-Qaeda. We all know...
If you know USA, you know what happend next was inevitabl.
Its "natural" to the bigger to treat a to bold thumb nose into a bloody nose eventualy. You better dont push!

3.
I will not drag a faction into it! See my Point 2. Its "natural" or/and "inherent to the system". You push it, you get it. IMHO Zoners r pushing it.

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