The lore is contradictory. In the SP campaign there is a bit where you're in Sigma-13 and they drop the line about GMG and RM and 80-yr-war, then the next chapter shows RM battelships and cruisers and gunboats stacked on each other in New Berlin and Frankfurt, and they have already invaded the Sigmas and wiped out the Kusari fleet in Honshu. Then the battleship rumor cards for missions talk about RM being broken. Makes no sense.
Kusari has gotten its ass kicked multiple times over, and hasn't ever won anything that I know of. They also have the fewest stationary battleships--Kyushu, Hokkaido, Shikoku, and Hiroshima. They have to be at the bottom.
Lore says Rheinland is a spent force, crippled with debt and that can only have gotten worse after the SP campaign. They currently do have a large number of ships--Dresden, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Munich, New Berlin, Omega-15, Stuttgart, Braunschweig, and Bremen--but they are all in disrepair and undermanned, and some of them cant even move anymore. They are a broken force.
Bretonia was not directly beaten in the campaign or any other time that I know of. They have at least 10 stationary battleships that I can think of--Cambridge, Dublin, Dundee, Leeds x2, New London, Newcastle x3, and Salisbury--and there are the two Exile ships there too. There's no real evidence to suggest they are a broken force, tired but not broken.
Liberty's strength is unknown. They were able to hold back Rheinland, but so was Bretonia. They have th at least 11 stationary battleships--California, Colorado, Illinois, Minnesota, New York, New Hampshire, Ontario, Quebec x2, Texas, and Virginia--and all of them are in good repair. They have the most advanced technology in the private sector too.
Gallia's fleet of stationary ships is larger than Liberty's. I don't think it's larger than Liberty plus Bretonia.
---
Kusari is effectively out of it already. They could rejoin later for some purpose, but as of now they are off the board.
Its not yet know what will happen with Rheinland. They do not have direct contact so Gallia would be better off to just throw money at Rheinland and pay them to sit it out, and then push them over after the other houses have fallen and nobody is left to join with RM. Dunno if RM will do this but that is what Gallia should try.
If/when Liberty joins with Bretonia, the two of them will be able to push the Gallic invasion force back into Orkney. The longer they wait the harder it will be. If Liberty doesn't join fully with Bretonia, the Gallics would be able to beat them both individually. Maybe at that point the Kusari and RM forces could join up and get things moving enough to beat the stretched forces before they recovered. Dunno. Better for everybody if Bret and Liberty kick Gallic butt sooner rather than later.
Quote:Economoic strength is part of military strength. It is rather idiotic to try to make a comparision in regards to power and dismiss the very base of their power.
Thanks Daedric, I really appreciate that... :L
I wasn't talking about millitary sustainabillity. Just full on right now if everyone were to war with eachother who'd come up on top.
Rhienland lost its entire millitary (except for RNC-Westfalen...) in the 80 year war.
In the time between then and the SP Campaign, they became the strongest house, which is one reason the Nomads wanted them, that and they're damn near bordering the Nomad Worlds/Eastern/Nothern Omicrons, which can be seen when Juni talks about a 'recent Rhienland expedition...' to the Nomad worlds, one assumes they were infected, came back and infected Chancellor Hitler... I mean... Niemann... ( I could never really pinpoint the exact spelling of his name =P) who in turn infected Governor Tekagi...
EDIT: Which reminds me, why is Tekagi's Arch still Wilde? Would the Kusarians really leave a-pink-elephant-in-the-room sitting -just- above their main systems? I doubt it, seriously.
Which is odd to me, considering Rhienland was full on threatening bombarding Planet New Tokyo during the Nomad War. If Kusari is on your side... then... why bombard them? Confused. Perhaps not all were on their side. Maybe just random plot twist Governor Tekagi.
Anyway, I digress.
I feel that Kusari is higher than Bretonia on the scale because they beat back Bretonia and had a minor tiff with Gallia, which has since stopped. Now, however, Bretonia successively after fighting Kusari now has to fight Gallia, a much harder opponent, which is why they are lower on the list.
Gallia, written in the highly lolwutty Igiss-friendly lore, is equal to 2 full size houses, according to what I've heard...
Again, the quantity/quality thing comes up... Gallia... appears to have both but highly stretched supply lines... evidenced by the taking over of the Gate Construction Site in Tau-23, and the Gaian Guard station in Lewis.
Eh.
Let me do the numbers thing too.
Gallia: 250,000
Liberty: 100,000
Rhienland: 75,000
Kusari: 50,000
Nomads: 25,000 <---------- Suncrusher? Planetkiller? Deathstar? Quantity/Quality thing again.
Bretonia: 20,000
Corsairs: 10,000
Outcasts: 8,000
Red Hessians: 4,000
Zoners: 3,500
Order: 1,500-2,000 after the Battle of Omicron Minor
' Wrote:Ah, then I must have misunderstood it, Daedric.
No. We should check. I am not 100% sure. It has been a long time since I read the vanilla stuff. Ursus is right, some lore is contradictory. I wouldn't be surprised if a rumor card on one station said Rheinland landed in resource rich territory and another said it was deprived.
' Wrote:Thanks Daedric, I really appreciate that... :L
I didn't call you idiotic. I said the comparision you were asking for was idiotic. Sorry if I offended you.
You're not asking about a war - you're asking if we took all the military groups, put them in one system and forced them into a death match. The answer to that again falls to who allies with who and for how long they honor that alliance. If no alliances are allowed, Gallia, of course.
I'd also like to ask where some of you are getting your numbers on the Nomads from.
Well from what I understood, the whole reason for those hazardous expeditions they led into the Omegas (y'know, the ones where no one came back) was because they needed to search everywhere for anything they could use.
The list is:
Main / House forces:
- Gallia (did a huge buildup of forces over many years)
- Liberty (largest standing army on the Sirius side)
- Rheinland (Militaristic nation, significant standing forces and equipment left over from the Nomad war buildup).
- Kusari (Used to occupy spot 3, but suffered severe losses at the hands of Gallia)
- Bretonia (Suffered consecutive losses at the hands of Kusari and Gallia)
Smaller groups in relative order of strength. NONE of these have the capability to directly threaten or challenge a house navy in a war of attrition:
- Corsairs (the entire nation is geared around spacetravel and general brigandry)
- Outcasts (smaller standing forces then the Corsairs, but on average with higher skilled pilots)
- Council (not a significant force in comparison to the various standing Sirian armies)
- Hessians (Focused on Rheinland, but holding a significant amount of Omega space)
- Nomads/Wilde (While individually stronger, the Nomads lack the numbers to take most factions headon)
- BHG Core (Mainly hunting for tech in the Omicrons)
- Order (Took a crushing blow at Minor)
- Coalition (Barely able to be called a military threat in terms of a standing navy)
Anything not listed here is simply insignificant in military terms. This includes most unlawful factions. Doesn't mean they can't do damage... just means they won't be conquering entire planets or bases.
Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.
Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.
![[Image: smuggler-threat-0-1.jpg]](http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x57/UrsusMorologus/Freelancer%20Discovery/smuggler-threat-0-1.jpg)
![[Image: 50px-OSILogo.png]](http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/dannflyheit/Faction%20Icons/50px-OSILogo.png)
