Gunboat Balance

[bluntpencil2001]

One gunboat should kill a VHF 99% of the time.
One gunboat should be able to kill a pair of VHF about half the time.

Stuff like this will be very hard to balance.

Also, you have to take into account skill level. A lot of recent balance changes were because a few pilots of ridiculously high skill level managed to push certain classes to their limit. Rebalancing because of them isn't very fair, and makes skill count for less.

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[galaktik]

Well like AoM said it is not all in numbers, I know some players are better in one type of ship then in other and tahta is the way it should be.....

I try to do my best in every ship even transporter ship.....

And Morrigan you posted nice examples there for equally skilled pilots, wich is in fact rear thing in game...

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not here

[RingoW]

You cannot balance them all. Every time you will have a PVP junky class.

Respectfully
AoM

[bluntpencil2001]

You cannot balance them all. Every time you will have a PVP junky class.

Respectfully
AoM

Agreed... but we've got to try.

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[alance]

Stuff like this will be very hard to balance.

Also, you have to take into account skill level. A lot of recent balance changes were because a few pilots of ridiculously high skill level managed to push certain classes to their limit. Rebalancing because of them isn't very fair, and makes skill count for less.

I did take skill level into account when I said "given equal pilots".

I -know- my Chart of Relative Pwnage (from now on referred to as "CoRP"!) is perfect-world thinking, but you need a unified goal when balancing ship classes. There are a ton of opinions on how well ship class A should fare against ship class B, but none of those opinions mean squat if our modder overlord (kudos to Igiss!) is working under another rationale.

That's not a snipe at Igiss by any means, it's more of a reminder for everyone posting balance suggestions based on their own personal opinions of ship class relationships. So I vote that my CoRP be engraved in stone for all to revere and worship. Or at least engrave it on the edge of your display so you can reference it easily... and vote me emperor for one year; Hugo Chavez and I have plans.

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"To gain a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence;
to subjugate the enemy's army without doing battle is the highest of excellence."

[bluntpencil2001]

I did take skill level into account when I said "given equal pilots".

I -know- my Chart of Relative Pwnage (from now on referred to as "CoRP"!) is perfect-world thinking, but you need a stationary target to shoot at when balancing ship classes. There are a ton of opinions on how well ship class A should fare against ship class B, but none of those opinions mean squat if our modder overlord (kudos to Igiss!) is working under another rationale.

That's not a snipe at Igiss by any means, it's more of a reminder for everyone posting balance suggestions based on their own personal opinions of ship class relationships. So I vote that my CoRP be engraved in stone for all to revere and worship. Or at least engrave it on the edge of your display so you can reference it easily... and vote me emperor for one year; Hugo Chavez and I have plans.

Haha! Genius! *Doesn't bother voting and instead fetches an AK-47 to join Morrigan's revolution*

Yeah, that's the problem, you can't balance ships based on them being stationary objects. Maneuverability counts for a lot... but when testing, unfortunately, different pilots make the maneuverability look different. For instance, Sonja Kerensky can make a Rheinland bomber look a lot more agile than it really is. I can make a Titan seem less slow than it actually is.

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[alance]

No no no i meant "moving/stationary target" as a metaphor for trying to find the answer to a problem when the requirements keep changing. I wasn't talking about ships actually in motion/sitting stationary:D
/edited previous post to clear that up!/

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"To gain a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence;
to subjugate the enemy's army without doing battle is the highest of excellence."

[bluntpencil2001]

No no no i meant "moving/stationary target" as a metaphor for trying to find the answer to a problem when the requirements keep changing. I wasn't talking about ships actually in motion/sitting stationary:D
/edited previous post to clear that up!/

Oh, we're in agreement then, heh.:DDo we hit D.C first, sir?

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[mjolnir]

Nice.... CoRP

Just some of my thoughts on this one:

One gunboat should kill a VHF 99% of the time.

One gunboat should be able to kill a pair of VHF about half the time.
One gunboat should be able to kill one bomber about half the time.

To be able to kill a VHF 99% of the time you need fast-firing, fast speed weapons... that don't do so much damage (otherwise they are uber on other caps).

As it is now the fighter just flies circles around the GB and ignores it completely... leaving when he wants (no point in shooting on a GB if I can never take down his shields)..

To be able to kill capships GBs need slower firing, more damaging weapons.


Now just about all gunboat weapons try to do both..... So should we have two classes of weapons, or just stay in the one class world?

- problem is that with two weapons classes the GB will become a customizable swiss army knife.... everyone will simply fly GBs and change loadouts... or make a balanced loadout somewhere in the middle.
Not to mention two GBs operating together one anti-fighter and one anti-capshis.....uber combo :)

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[galaktik]

Nice.... CoRP

Just some of my thoughts on this one:
To be able to kill a VHF 99% of the time you need fast-firing, fast speed weapons... that don't do so much damage (otherwise they are uber on other caps).

As it is now the fighter just flies circles around the GB and ignores it completely... leaving when he wants (no point in shooting on a GB if I can never take down his shields)..

To be able to kill capships GBs need slower firing, more damaging weapons.
Now just about all gunboat weapons try to do both..... So should we have two classes of weapons, or just stay in the one class world?

- problem is that with two weapons classes the GB will become a customizable swiss army knife.... everyone will simply fly GBs and change loadouts... or make a balanced loadout somewhere in the middle.
Not to mention two GBs operating together one anti-fighter and one anti-capshis.....uber combo :)

I think we have that weps for Gb some time now, fast firing Solaris is good against fighters, and if you are alone against fighter you can alway combine turret view and normal view:)

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not here