Just Bloody Lock it

[Zelot]

Yeah, except for making it more accessible, transparent, and a right that comes with official status rather than some weird frowned upon voodoo magic which takes over a year to finalize.

What does that mean it should be a right? You see, that could mean different things. If a faction is requesting something that the admins feel is unneeded or unbalanced, they will deny it. The admins will then tell the faction why, and that faction will disagree. There will then be screams of how the admins are denying factions their official rights, or how <strike>they</strike> we are bias.

Other faction rights are about the right to request the admins do something. Factions can already request a custom ID. If the admins feel it is needed and necessary they will give it.

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[Cannon]

Here's the particular PM and my response.

Good day I just wanted to tell you that ALG and Kruger merged and they have a new tag [RWM] we would want that you would add it on the tracker. Thanks!

(my reply)
No, that's not okay. There are a number of issues related to the management of official factions. You guys need to post a proposal on the forum to what the primary ID will be and which NPC faction you will represent. Send me the link when you have posted it.[/QUOTE]

To clarify several things:
- It is not okay for official factions to merge and take control of multiple IDs and NPCs without admin approval. For example, imagine if the 101 leadership sent me a PM explaining that they are merging with the LN.

- It is important that official factions to make their ideas visible to the community. Sending a single sentence PM to a single admin is not doing this. It encourages people to see official faction conspiracy. This is why is I told the leader to make the proposal public.

- This amounts to a new faction request or at least a very major change. It probably requires a faction creation request.

EDIT: - You will notice that I did not say no to the idea, I said no to the demand to accept the change. It is really important that official factions do not do things behind closed doors and official faction rules are followed.

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Proud member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"

Old Avatar #2 | Old Avatar #3

[Friday]

If factions want to merge - then surely the onus should be on them to develop the material such as infocards and such, submitted for approval of course?

Lighten the load of the devs - make it as easy for them as possible to implement, and it increases the chance of it happening.

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[Durandal]

What does that mean it should be a right?

I mean an official faction should have some room with which to define their own roleplay.

You see, that could mean different things.

I wasn't aware different meant bad.

If a faction is requesting something that the admins feel is unneeded or unbalanced, they will deny it. The admins will then tell the faction why, and that faction will disagree.

You will never, ever be able to please anyone. The question you need to ask yourself is if this is a roleplaying server or pure tech, by the book, totally in the box one where no new ideas/factions are looked at or considered.

Given the fact that you were a member of the Phantoms, are a member of the IND, and were instrumental in the creation of the Ronin, please make the right decision here. The old and grey shouldn't be the only ones allowed to try new stuff out.

There will then be screams of how the admins are denying factions their official rights, or how <strike>they</strike> we are bias.

There will ALWAYS be screams of how you're doing that. This changes nothing in that regard. It only opens up possibilities. If you go to your much vaunted puretech there will be screams of everyone for your "denying them their roleplay".

Other faction rights are about the right to request the admins do something. Factions can already request a custom ID. If the admins feel it is needed and necessary they will give it.

They can, but it's not a written right, and for some reason it's some hush-hush process that never seems to go through right. There's always some kind of invisible wall blocking it from happening. I'm not sure which point this stigma started happening, but I know for a fact it wasn't always this way. *Points to AW, HF, NovaPG, SCRA, CR*.

And you'll smack me for saying this, but the Phantoms and IND aren't really worth nothing up there. They were comprised of the core of Discovery's admin team at the time, so it's pretty much a moot point.

[Athenian]

Given the fact that you were a member of the Phantoms, are a member of the IND, and were instrumental in the creation of the Ronin, please make the right decision here. The old and grey shouldn't be the only ones allowed to try new stuff out.
And you'll smack me for saying this, but the Phantoms and IND aren't really worth nothing up there. They were comprised of the core of Discovery's admin team at the time, so it's pretty much a moot point.

Given the fact that several Admins weren't in any of the above, are we automatically going to make the wrong decision?

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Friday]

It is important to note as well that IRL, such mergers dont happen overnight either!

Whilst the factions can make it 'official' at the stroke of a pen, the process of merging computer systems, fleets, corporate logos and advertising can take years.

Hell, my employers IRL tell us it will take up to two years just to change company names on all our clothes and vehicles and buildings!

So I would recommend OPTION 2 - fly with seperate IDs for now.

You can say in RP they are merged - the devs never said no you cant merge them in RP. But taking a long time to merge the IDs can be justified in RP on the grounds that it normally takes time to repaint all the ships, and issue new IDs and government registration.

Give it time for people to adjust to the new RP, give it time to establish new deals under the new company name.

Some things you can do:

1) Ask for equalisation of the factions IFF profiles - make sure they are all the same.
2) GO through each others records, each member contact factions/groups they have had dealings with - make sure both ALG and Kruger are recognised as the same entity by other factions/groups. make sure both factions are cleared for docking and trade rights.
3) If there is to be equipment sharing, ask for tweaks to ship permissions and mining system so that both ALG and Kruger can act as one.
4) Write up a bunch of new infocards and base descriptions, submit them for editing and approval. Submit new news items for the bars.

Short PMs will never cut it, but build the story, and it will get up.

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[Durandal]

Given the fact that several Admins weren't in any of the above, are we automatically going to make the wrong decision?

Kane, Caylith, Nightfall, Hoodlum, Virus.

Come on, there's not really much room for debate. I'm not trying to call you out on being elitist or anything. The people up top do need to unwind and have their fun, I know that better than anyone.

I'm just saying that they're not really legitimate examples of player run official factions getting their own IDs.

[Zelot]

Kane, Caylith, Nightfall, Hoodlum, Virus.

Come on, there's not really much room for debate. I'm not trying to call you out on being elitist or anything. The people up top do need to unwind and have their fun, I know that better than anyone.

I'm just saying that they're not really legitimate examples of player run official factions getting their own IDs.

I think we are getting a bit off point don't you Tycho? I think Athenian was eluding to the fact that directing your argument at me, as if my participation in those factions matters, ignores the fact that we have a whole team of admins that will be making the decision, and many of them were not in the IND, Phantoms, or are involved with the Ronin.

With that, lets get back on topic yes?

Edit: Let me add, Helgast.

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[Durandal]

I think we are getting a bit off point don't you Tycho? I think Athenian was eluding to the fact that directing your argument at me, as if my participation in those factions matters

Well see, in a way it does, but not as a negative. My point is that all of these factions are unusual out of the box stuff, which's perfectly fine and awesome and fits into the lore none the less. It's just all custom, and it strikes me as a bit odd that you're not often in favor of other people doing the same kinds of things.

ignores the fact that we have a whole team of admins that will be making the decision, and many of them were not in the IND, Phantoms, or are involved with the Ronin.

Back then, you really sort of didn't. With the Phooms and IND you mean. The only admin -not- involved with those two back in that day and age which comes to mind is Korrd, who unfortunately I've never had the pleasure of talking to.

So far as I know the Ronin thing was more of a dev matter which looped around the admin team entirely, but an unrelated admin/mod can correct me on this point if I'm wrong.

With that, lets get back on topic yes?

Sure. So about custom IDs being a faction right and all that jazz... *refers to the majority of post 34*

Edit: Let me add, Helgast.

Thanks for pointing that one out, I forgot.

[Gforce]

Alright, time for me to write something. As leader of Kruger| I have this to say:
How to fix to the current ID problem.

Simply add the Kruger ID mining bonuses to ALG's ID and then all [RWM] ships can move to the ALG ID. The way it had been planned was for the Kruger transport fleet (so ALL Kruger transports) would changed to ALG ID/IFF. Miners would stay as Kruger (to get the mining bonus) and fighters/bombers could be either. So, if the mining bonus goes to ALG ID, then ALL Kruger ID'd ship will change to ALG.


So, that's that out of the way, we can move on to what happens next. Either all the Kruger stations can be changed to ALG and Kruger removed from the game altogether, or, both ALG and Kruger stations etc. get renamed to RWM, which is more work, but makes everything look nicer.

I suppose one could say the official ALG and Kruger factions become the faction RWM, while the indi side of RWM keep their old names (ALG and Kruger). One could also maybe go on to say that this emergence of what seems to be 3 factions could becasue of the lag of updating the look of the old companies (as Friday said, that can take years) so during that time to you Kruger, ALG and RWM. All the same thing (For example, take a look at the American rail companies Santa Fe, Burlington Northern and BNSF. The 3 are the same thing)

But as for the major problem of RWM using 2 ID, just add all of Kruger's good sides to the ALG ID, then RWM will use the ALG ID only, and Kruger...Poor Kruger can fade away. That's all I have time for at the moment, hopefully that'll restore something in this merge, if not, simple delete the merger posts and ALG and Kruger become to factions again.