HF Balance

[Armageddon]

Currently it seems that the HF is basically the term for a bad VHF i believe there are several that require a bit of modification because of this.

Executioner - Has worse turning the guardian and avenger. I suggest up the turn rate on it.

For most 1.0 HF's - They lack firepower, up them to something like class 6/7 weapons at least, up the powerplants a bit due to the extra power requirements from the weapons.

I believe the HF should be the intermediary between the LF and the VHF. Meaning the cross between firepower and agility. They should have a turn rate of between the 2 other classes. Also as there is discussion of SP being dropped possibly their own shield line. I would also suggest a lower powered razor for the HF class, which does about half the damage of a Mini Razor.

I don't know if any others need a boost up, but thats all i could think of.

Im aiming for the HF to have enough agility to evade an LF in a fight, while having enough firepower to attack larger ships. Basically making the HF the multirole class. It can do the job of fighter support and be able to take out certain larger targets (e.g. transports however it should be quite difficult to do). Doing this will separate them from the VHF's, and will make sure they are no longer just weaker versions of VHF class ships.

[Jinx]

heavy fighters and very heavy fighters are the same class. - they are like light fighters and light fighters MK2.

so the heavy figther is the same to the light fighter as the light fighter mk2 is to the very heavy figther - so the balance is OK. - but light fighters / heavy fighters are rarely used, and its mostly LF mk2 and VHFs.

---

Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Scaramanga]

I think it is good as it is..

---

[Armageddon]

That is my main point, i am on about separating the HF from the VHF class, and making it a completely separate class.

More on weapons loadout i was thinking something like

4 gun slots 2 class 8 2 class 9

1 360 degree turret class 3-4

Forward facing torp mount which has a limited turn angle.

Mine and CM mount

possibly new shield class for the ship

bots/bats somewhere between the LF and VHF of the respective faction.

Basically you have the dogfighter (LF), you have the Heavily armed fighter for taking on larger ships (VHF). But where is the Mid range fighter that can do both? Currently disco is missing a Multirole fighter class really.

Think of it this way, if your a Naval admiral of one of the house forces. Deciding what fighters you should put on that new battleship in the dock. You would not want to have to put 40 Liberators (to protect the ship) on board and 40 Guardians (to attack enemy ships) you would prefer to have a mid-range fighter capable of doing both, but the key point is although it can do both jobs, it does not do them as well as the specific class.

[mjolnir]

You both are messing two different HF categories.

Stilleto, Executioner, Falcon are exactly what jinx says. Simple versions of VHFs.

BUT

Crow
Hammerhead
Taiidan HF
Centurion - this one requires fixing

are proper and USED HF

Typical HF stats are right now:

turning from 1.3 to 1.5 (not counting Centurion)
9000/900 powerplant
6 Guns (4x lvl 9, 2x lvl 8), Crow has forward firing turret as extra
CD/T slot
7-9k armor
lvl 9 shield - 8000 capacity

so compared to LFs they have more shield, more guns but are bigger target.

They are not used much since basically there are only 3 worth using.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now if you want to see the balance
Hammerhead - is ok

Taiidan HF - is ok, except for a slightly too big hitbox, hopefully getting changed

Crow - has really huge hitbox now, new custom one is already made, I think it will require re-balancing after that though. 6+1 guns with extreme turning is a bit too much, turning decrease to somewhere around Hammerhead/Taiidan will be in order

Centurion - it's just too slow, it should be upped to a bit over Sabre turning speed

---

Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Jinx]

the problem we have here is that our classes are not strictly defined. - there is a lot of freedom of what a VHF can be. - take the Blood dragon ( falsely labled a HF ) - it is as agile as some light fighters, have lvl 10 weapons, a torp mount and enough energy for infernos / razors.

on the other hand we have the titan, a referrence of a VHF. big, heavily armoured, lots of energy - but a lot slower.

furthermore, we have the problem that - agility means MUCH more than armour. - to balance a blood dragon with a titan would mean to upgrade the titans armour by at least 100% - but that is not too important cause both ships do not meet up ( and if people restrained themselves from putting infernos / krakens on the BD, - things would be fine, too - but thats wishful thinking )

so the span from a fast to a slow VHF connects directly to the light fighters - leaving almost no room for heavies.

the only niche i see is indeed the configuration as a "jack of all traits"...

something about these stats ( that should be the MAX stats ):
- 6000 armour
- agility like a hammerhead
- size around 80% of a VHF and around 10% bigger than one of the larger LF ( note here - the kadesh HF is almost twice the size of a wrath! )
- 4x lvl9 weapons
- CD only slot
- CD/torp slot
- mine
- CM
- class 9 shields
- energycore of a hammerhead

that would take up a niche somewhat. - in a dogfight though, such a fighter might be overpowering just like the blood dragon with inferno/non BD weapons is overpowered. - so its hard to balance. - the only thing that really makes it a little weaker is the relativly low armour and the class 9 shields, which might not be enough.

to balance it further - one could make them short range defense crafts ( any only give them 10 cargospace - enough for an armour upgrade - but not enough to loot stuff )


another problem with speculating about shipclasses and stats is - if igiss removes destructible parts from the vanilla ships.... we ll face a rebalance of stats anyway. - the hammerhead for example is an extremely nice ship ( my very favourite ) - but its affected by mines a lot ( like any other vanilla ship ) - if you take away that vulnerability, it might be ...... uber.

---

Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Armageddon]

That's more the idea I'm on about. It would also be more in RP for the police to have access to these HF's for attacking big ships than having to go in a Liberator, Hussar or whatever the others are.

[Jinx]

the problem is - cause agility is more important than armour, people will still prefer the MK2 LF. - its simply twice as hard to hit - and that makes up for every feature a HF might have.

---

Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[mjolnir]

I thought you wanted to talk about the balance of existing ships...

not about making something new and different.

--------------
and no Jinx, against a bomber say a Taiidan HF is a much better choice than Tigershark.

Still agile enough to evade but packs much more punch.

I personally would use a HF over LF anytime. Since with some hard flying you can take as little damage as in a LF, 8000 vs 5400 shield also helps. But there's no way you can compensate for two less guns.

Only bad thing as well as reason why they are not so used is that there are too few HFs.

Bretonia can surely use one.

---

Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Grimly]

A question about the Crow.

For which faction is it build ?

---

Taking what's yours since 816 A.S.