The Future of Capship Availability

[NonSequitor]

The recent brouhaha around the Zoner shipline got me thinking about something that I and others have brought up in past: The plausibility of non-house capships, more specifically BSes.

If the Zoners are going to get a generous dose of realism injected into their shipline, what's to say the Corsairs, Outcasts, Hessian, Core and Order shouldn't be innoculated as well?

House economies can build and maintain BSes, whereas everyone else would have to keep overall cost effectiveness more in mind. A small group of bombers, gbs and/or cruisers will take just about anything down.

Not to mention the fact that much of the Omicron, Omegas and Taus are filled to the brim with asteroids and similiar floating chunks of frustration - the biggest reason I sold my Juggy a long time ago.

I suggest that there be exceptions, i.e. SRPs and player faction allowances. The SRP process would have to be transparent and non-biased as possible. Player faction BSes would possess current performance related attributes, so no unstoppable avatars of death for them in any case.

Thus high level roleplaying would be rewarded, nor would the hard work of modelers be needlessly deep-sixed.

The ingame situation would also be on more even ground in the Borderworlds and the Nomad Worlds. BSes would be very few and far between.

[Durandal]

Oh boy, and there goes the can of worms..

[Singularity]

There are many people who simply love or are comfortable to fly a Battleship. Not everyone are good in snubs, some are in Caps especially Battleship. And evn if they are not good, they are interested in learning.

If we restrict them, its more like forcing people to play FORUM-lancer than Freelancer.

For every Battleship to play with, you got to SRP it. That means again more work in Forums. People are there who are comfortable with Ossie and they use that to play in connecticut.

Everytime RPing can be really boring. Sometimes Conn provides the very much relax time needed.

I say just keep it simple, let it remain what it has been since long. Why ruin someone's fun ??

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[NonSequitor]

There are many people who simply love or are comfortable to fly a Battleship. Not everyone are good in snubs, some are in Caps especially Battleship. And evn if they are not good, they are interested in learning.

If we restrict them, its more like forcing people to play FORUM-lancer than Freelancer.

For every Battleship to play with, you got to SRP it. That means again more work in Forums. People are there who are comfortable with Ossie and they use that to play in connecticut.

Everytime RPing can be really boring. Sometimes Conn provides the very much relax time needed.

I say just keep it simple, let it remain what it has been since long. Why ruin someone's fun ??

Conn is a handy place to blow off steam, but this server is primarily an RP one. That's where the server's focus is - RP, of which PvP is often a part of.

We can't have a game that everyone is 100% satisfied with. I'm no snub-player myself - I'm definitely in the capship camp. I was fine with the status quo. But with a change coming to the Zoner shipline, I'm wondering why the same logic can't be applied to the other non-house factions.

My suggestion only concerns non-house caps. If an Indie wants to fly a BS, he would have 6 houses to choose from.

[Divine]

Is this now the "If I cannot have it, you shall not have it either" road?

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[Highland Laddie]

The changes to Zoner shipline had more to do with making Zoners less militaristic, as they should have always been. It wasn't about just taking away Zoners toys because they were irresponsible with them.

Same reason you don't see fleets of Gateway dunkirks flying around Bretonia. We weren't meant to have them, and we were fortunate enough that no dev just handed them to us and said "here, it makes total sense for you to have these."

[Coin]

The changes to Zoner shipline had more to do with making Zoners less militaristic, as they should have always been. It wasn't about just taking away Zoners toys because they were irresponsible with them.

Same reason you don't see fleets of Gateway dunkirks flying around Bretonia. We weren't meant to have them, and we were fortunate enough that no dev just handed them to us and said "here, it makes total sense for you to have these."

so nothing to do with a corvo then. the zoners' militaristic tendencies are a recentthing, and to do the players, not the ships. im not interested in whether or not zoners keep their caps, i think that as soon as you let the camels nose into the tent, the rest will follow. should the devs retconn one faction without a tremor of disapprobation from the community, it will be seen as a valid shortcut to enforce behaviour. kinda like opening eggs with triphammers. you can be a fanboy all you like cos gateway can't have caps, but just wait until gateway lose their 5kers, cos 'realism, bretonia is in a prolonged war and can't afford to build them, so you all have clydesdales and percherons.'

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[Highland Laddie]

so nothing to do with a corvo then. the zoners' militaristic tendencies are a recentthing, and to do the players, not the ships. im not interested in whether or not zoners keep their caps, i think that as soon as you let the camels nose into the tent, the rest will follow. should the devs retconn one faction without a tremor of disapprobation from the community, it will be seen as a valid shortcut to enforce behaviour. kinda like opening eggs with triphammers. you can be a fanboy all you like cos gateway can't have caps, but just wait until gateway lose their 5kers, cos 'realism, bretonia is in a prolonged war and can't afford to build them, so you all have clydesdales and percherons.'

Actually, we'd still have the civilian ship line available to us, as well as 5kers built in friendly houses whose economies aren't strained by war, so that wouldn't be as big a problem. Not to mention we could always try RPing tech trades with our allies for 5kers.

I'd also point out that Gateway made the deliberate decision to restrict ourselves from using the Shire, and even limited use of the Shetland (at least back in 4.86 when it wasn't readily available to us like it is now) so that we would hold more true to our lore and not just look like Bowex 2.0 flying around out there. It was part of maintaining our RP and our identity.

You know what? There's also not GatewayGatewayGateway going around for years on the server for a reason, too. I suppose if we actually gave folks a reason to despise us (besides Bowex) maybe that would require some honest rethinking of how the faction should look. And we've also recently had such discussions, because we've seen our own faction shrink in the absence of Bowex on the server as well.

...i think that as soon as you let the camels nose into the tent, the rest will follow. should the devs retconn one faction without a tremor of disapprobation from the community, it will be seen as a valid shortcut to enforce behaviour.

Look, I'm not necessarily a fan of devs making major changes without some sort of discussion going on with Official Factions. I think it would be good for some of that to be hashed out. But does it HAVE to happen? No. Do the devs owe it to ask for a community vote on every change they want to make? No. That's part of what you accept when you're not the person in charge. You vote by playing the game. If you think the change is so awful and ruins the game...you stop playing it. That sends the signals back to the devs.

If you honestly, seriously believe the devs are just out there to screw you over and ruin your fun...you should probably just stop playing. Otherwise, just roll with the changes, offer input where it is warranted, and have fun in whichever ways you can.

[Singularity]

There are many people who simply love or are comfortable to fly a Battleship. Not everyone are good in snubs, some are in Caps especially Battleship. And evn if they are not good, they are interested in learning.

If we restrict them, its more like forcing people to play FORUM-lancer than Freelancer.

For every Battleship to play with, you got to SRP it. That means again more work in Forums. People are there who are comfortable with Ossie and they use that to play in connecticut.

Everytime RPing can be really boring. Sometimes Conn provides the very much relax time needed.

I say just keep it simple, let it remain what it has been since long. Why ruin someone's fun ??

Conn is a handy place to blow off steam, but this server is primarily an RP one. That's where the server's focus is - RP, of which PvP is often a part of.

We can't have a game that everyone is 100% satisfied with. I'm no snub-player myself - I'm definitely in the capship camp. I was fine with the status quo. But with a change coming to the Zoner shipline, I'm wondering why the same logic can't be applied to the other non-house factions.

My suggestion only concerns non-house caps. If an Indie wants to fly a BS, he would have 6 houses to choose from.

I understand what you are implying, as I myself was against removing the battleships of Zoners. But I don't find any possible reason for extending it to all other spaces.

I know Indie has got 6 houses to choose, but What if someone plays good in Osiris, for to get hands on it, again he has to forum-lance. I know its RP server and most enjoy their time doing it. But PVP too is an important aspect.

Sometimes people buy in an Ossie just to fight in conn. Its a light-heart moment. Restricting them is just snatching the fun. and not everyone can SRP.

& as per I know, SRP needs extensive role-playing and building a character. But what's the fun for those people who just buy it for some casual conn pew ??

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||| Ollie's way ||| Ship Dealer ||| Code & Equipment shop |||

Low: ||| IMG ||| GMG ||| Platinum ||| Punisher ||| Kruger ||| ALG ||| RS ||| Phoenix ||| 101st ||| BD ||| ODF ||| RHA ||| _Decent: ||| Ronin ||| DHC ||| NET ||| BAF|A |||

[Coin]

Actually, we'd still have the civilian ship line available to us, as well as 5kers built in friendly houses whose economies aren't strained by war, so that wouldn't be as big a problem. Not to mention we could always try RPing tech trades with our allies for 5kers.

I'd also point out that Gateway made the deliberate decision to restrict ourselves from using the Shire, and even limited use of the Shetland (at least back in 4.86 when it wasn't readily available to us like it is now) so that we would hold more true to our lore and not just look like Bowex 2.0 flying around out there. It was part of maintaining our RP and our identity.

You know what? There's also not GatewayGatewayGateway going around for years on the server for a reason, too. I suppose if we actually gave folks a reason to despise us (besides Bowex) maybe that would require some honest rethinking of how the faction should look. And we've also recently had such discussions, because we've seen our own faction shrink in the absence of Bowex on the server as well.

...i think that as soon as you let the camels nose into the tent, the rest will follow. should the devs retconn one faction without a tremor of disapprobation from the community, it will be seen as a valid shortcut to enforce behaviour.

Look, I'm not necessarily a fan of devs making major changes without some sort of discussion going on with Official Factions. I think it would be good for some of that to be hashed out. But does it HAVE to happen? No. Do the devs owe it to ask for a community vote on every change they want to make? No. That's part of what you accept when you're not the person in charge. You vote by playing the game. If you think the change is so awful and ruins the game...you stop playing it. That sends the signals back to the devs.

If you honestly, seriously believe the devs are just out there to screw you over and ruin your fun...you should probably just stop playing. Otherwise, just roll with the changes, offer input where it is warranted, and have fun in whichever ways you can.

zonerzonerzoner arose because of their much vaunted (and, lets be honest, viewed with green eyes) neutrality and immense zoi. they were neutral to everything and could go everywhere. I remember Yoda[T] rocking around in a zoner cap, quietly trading... until he got a ban.

I don't think that there should be a complete audit of every single decision made, with input from every single faction, but is it too hard to have a post like this?

thread title : to the leaders of a.n.other official faction, from teh devs. Please send us a tl;dr of your current rp, we're thinking of giving you some new toys
leaders: oooh, yes please, here you are
devs: ahh, i see what you did there. nice. look, we were thinking of <suggestion: advantages>
leaders, hmmm, nice, but <suggestion: disadvantages>
Devs: well, if we <modification and improvement>
Leaders: yep, dats cool

-some time passes-

Devs: tah dah, shiny new toys
Leaders: <3


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if this had happened in the case of the zoner capsports, then we'd prolly have pages and pages of peeps saying 'hey, no fair, me next', rather than lots of people quietly keeping their heads down in case their shires magically become CTE750E's

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