Discussion: When house piracy goes "international" (Inter-house).

[WesternPeregrine]

Hello there. Recently the dormant topic of house pirates being allowed to pirate in neighboring houses has been flared up again, mostly due to some posterior changes to the initial one.

As many of you know, Freelancer only had two vast pirate/unlawful factions, who could operate in several House and non house systems. Those two are the Outcasts and the Corsairs.

Below these level are the remaining house unlawfuls/pirates. While some of them are powerful, they are usually restricted to activity inside their house, and surrounding border systems (in some cases, whole neighboring regions, like the Hessians and the Omegas, I believe). However, no matter the reasons why (or why not), these factions were not allowed to engage in piracy in neighboring houses. Even if it was a stone throw away, or even if there was npc presence there.

This rule (or concept) was taken down with the implementation of the change presented on the link above, where foreign factions were allowed to infiltrate another house for piracy.

If you read the story written in the change, the main reason stated was a scarcity of activity on that house, and not a need for the pirate faction to roam that area, nor any player driven development was made in that regard.

A change, based on the circumstances of the server at that time, was implemented. Apparently with the intention of becoming a permanent feature.

Tl : DR - What I ask of all is to discuss the criteria that should be applied on expanding "house" pirates/unlawfuls into another house core systems. Should it based on house activity, base range, faction rp progression, what?

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[The Liberty Rogues]

The main reason for expanding ZOI (Or rather, the recent bump done by this account) for Liberty pirates in particular was due to the dev balance towards high-income routes to be kept as far away from populated space. Right now the most active trade routes (and by extension- factions) lay far outside of our ZOI and completely bork the activity of piracy-focused factions, forcing us to adapt to more PVP centric approaches (Torpedoes for LR, as an example) to keep our members content. Since that is not the point of a piracy-orientated faction, compramise needs to be made in the form of ZOI expansions. Xenos and Rogues had Kusari up to New Tokyo, while Hackers got the Bretonian side of things.

On paper it seems reasonable enough, where an usually emptier house such as Kusari would get more activity and more reason for both the lawfuls and unlawfuls to log (Shoot pirates and fending off foreign turf-mustlers), but I can see how some people might see it as power grabbing.

If there are alternatives to this, please suggest them. Also, considering the current activity balance, this ZOI expansion should actually go to Rheinland, not Kusari. I think KNF and the Exiles got activity covered at this point.

TL;DR, get more traders in starving areas and then zone expansionism will not exist for factions outside of OCs and Corsairs.

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[SpaceTime]

A change in official faction ZoI can happen with RP progression via the faction perks.

Certainly there was no RP progression for Liberty Rogues to operate in New Tokyo back in 2012, you can ask Reverend Del for his real reasons behind this

Since that is not the point of a piracy-orientated faction, compramise needs to be made in the form of ZOI expansions. Xenos and Rogues had Kusari up to New Tokyo, while Hackers got the Bretonian side of things.

Lol. How did you come up with these completely unfounded statements?

[Tarator]

The main reason for expanding ZOI (Or rather, the recent bump done by this account) for Liberty pirates in particular was due to the dev balance towards high-income routes to be kept as far away from populated space. Right now the most active trade routes (and by extension- factions) lay far outside of our ZOI and completely bork the activity of piracy-focused factions, forcing us to adapt to more PVP centric approaches (Torpedoes for LR, as an example) to keep our members content. Since that is not the point of a piracy-orientated faction, compramise needs to be made in the form of ZOI expansions.

I can't see how this would make any sense. By the logic you follow, factions that have a limited zoi should have their zoi enlarged because the region in which they reside is "inactive" or far from profitable routes, it shouldn't work that way. If you can't reach potential new possibilities for encounters in other regions, then you should approach them in RP first. Its like as if gaians should request for hudson being added to their zoi just because lets say the systems they occupy are not active and whatnot, because of planet Atka.

my 2 cents
Also what @SpaceTime said.

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[Stoner_Steve]

TL;DR, get more traders in starving areas and then zone expansionism will not exist for factions outside of OCs and Corsairs.

Are you arguing for a change in the economy or a change in ZOI rules, one is being discussed here and the other needs to be taken up with the Dev team.

On the topic of expanding ZOI, and given that your posting as the LR, why, inRP, would the LR want to expand into Kusari?

Going off of your argument of traders are avoiding the houses how would expanding into another house help increase interaction between pirates and traders if the economy is already balanced against interactions?

[jammi]

Honestly, the Rogues weren't so much a problem for me, because there were Rogue NPCs in Shikoku so far back as vanilla. Rogues expanding into Kusari was actually one of the original plot arcs that rumours and news articles indicated was going on.

New Tokyo was a bit of a reach, but a one system extension isn't as drastic as many people seem to think it was.

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[Fluffyball]

It would be good for certain unlawful factions. For example, I can't really understand why only Brigands have access to Kyushu, of all unlawful factions of Gallia.

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[Sabru]

personally, i think the rogues heading south to Rheinland would be more logical, as well as for the activity balance.

Though, by your own admission, LR is a piracy-centric faction. considering that LR resides in what is the most active house, by far, wanting to go beyond current limits does seem like power-grabbing.

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[oZoneRanger]

Base range, would be a good option. If say a group wants to expand its ZOI into another House system, it can move into an independent adjacent system, where it currently has access but no base. They build one and maintain it for a set amount of time and then they get access to the adjacent systems. But no one will go for that idea, even though PoB´s, hate them or not, generate alot of RP and ingame activity.

Other situations that might warrant pirate factions expanding from one House to operate in another would be war. Like the Privateers in Bretionia.

If a faction has proven and current RP that gets them access to some place to land and stage from, i.e. an unlawful faction gives another unlawful faction access to its base and therefore the adjacent systems, might work as well.

[Vulkhard Muller]

The main reason for expanding ZOI (Or rather, the recent bump done by this account) for Liberty pirates in particular was due to the dev balance towards high-income routes to be kept as far away from populated space. Right now the most active trade routes (and by extension- factions) lay far outside of our ZOI and completely bork the activity of piracy-focused factions, forcing us to adapt to more PVP centric approaches (Torpedoes for LR, as an example) to keep our members content. Since that is not the point of a piracy-orientated faction, compramise needs to be made in the form of ZOI expansions.

I can't see how this would make any sense. By the logic you follow, factions that have a limited zoi should have their zoi enlarged because the region in which they reside is "inactive" or far from profitable routes, it shouldn't work that way. If you can't reach potential new possibilities for encounters in other regions, then you should approach them in RP first. Its like as if gaians should request for hudson being added to their zoi just because lets say the systems they occupy are not active and whatnot, because of planet Atka.

my 2 cents
Also what @SpaceTime said.

Well Gaians can already go to California for pretty much the same reason....... I wouldn't mind factions like Gaians getting a line basically stating their ZOI is anywhere that PF/OS&C have a base. Only factions who have a primary corporate enemy should get this, though that is a discussion for another topic. Id rather not derail this one.