Negative consequences of moving best premium scrap selling points to Gallia

[Laura C.]

Hi everybody, I would like to open discussion about topic in title and mainly about moving best premium scrap selling points back to Omicrons. I will speak here about RFP experience, but I would like to know experience of others and also their opinions about mentioned return of selling points back to Omicrons, because it both involves many factions (Rheinland and maybe partially also Kusari lawfuls, Junkers, GMG, Outcasts, Corsairs) and their indies. Maybe if we will share same view, it will be input for devs/admins to execute this change.

So, why I want best selling points back to Omicrons? It turned out that this change has very negative impact on smuggling in Rheinland. Before, we had lot of it, mainly consisting of indie junkers and freelancers, which were trading premium scrap mainly to Omicron Alpha (rarely also to Gamma), and on the way back to Liberty they smuggled cardamine (or artifacts in case of Gamma). This was one of the main activity sources for RFP, but other lawfuls had benefit from it too, as well as GMG patrols in Sigmas (and I would say also Kusari lawfuls, because of people didn´t want to go through Rheinland for this or that reason, they had to travel through their systems).

After two best selling points were moved to Gallia, this almost completely stopped. For example in October (before server crash), I spent total of around 10 hours logged during like three or four days, and there appeared ONE smuggler for whole time. And other members of RFP have quite similar experience. I even went to closely monitor lane traffic on untagged char to see if people just don´t avoid the place when they see RFP tagged ship there, and result after lot of hours was that currently you are lucky if you meet one smuggler per hour, usually it takes even more time to see one.

This was not so obvious for some time because we had lot of smugglers with sorted artifacts from cargo buff event, which admins overlooked and let continue for much longer time than planned. But after its end, consequences of the change appeared in full effect and have negative impact on lawful factions.

I don´t know what was reason to move those selling points to Gallia, but I suspect to bring more life there. If this was the case, it didn´t work (none of any Gallic systems is in top 20 popular systems anyway, according to server stats, and generally you barely see anyone playing there) and only noticeable effect is making Rheinland even more dead (also GMG paramilitary is negatively affected I would say). I write even more because when you combine this with lack of full scale war which was discussed several times in other threads, result is that Rheinland playerbase is shrinking because - to quote some of them - "there is nothing to do".

Anyway, here is my proposal and arguments, let the discussion and poll voting begin.

Addition: Just for information, current prices and selling points of premium scrap (according to mining guide):
$14,000 at Maintenon Shipyard, Orleanais.
$11,000 at Chalons-et-Champagne Station, Champagne.
$9,999 at Tripoli Shipyard, Omicron Gamma.
$9,000 at Yokohama Shipyard, New Tokyo.
$9,000 at Fujisawa Mining Facility, Okinawa.

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.

[DiscoveryGC Admins]

[jammi]

The scrap rebalance was basically a punitive action aimed at both Congress and Junker indie groups that were abusing jump trading. Hilariously all the initial nerf did was reinforce that behaviour because jump trading in large groups became the only efficient way to trade it. Basically everyone except the actual offenders were punished.

What I really don't understand is why the original pricing wasn't restored after jump trading was de facto deleted. Premium scrap is probably the strongest contender for the ignoble "worst ore" award right now, although meph would probably cry that actually it's H3.

I think the dudes in charge of pricing would have an insanely hard time explaining how the current status quo benefits anyone .

[Malmsteen]

I believe that premium scrap should be returned back to be sold in Valetta Shipyard in Alpha.
This didn't only activate the passage of scrappers and smugglers through rheinland, but also created a special relation
between the Junkers (independent or under any flag) and the outcasts.
It also gave a chance for the BDM| and the =LSF= and the Kempatai to investigate the moments of traders and miners in
these areas (route from texas to alpha) so it was one idea, with many parties getting benefits from.
I also would like to add, that maybe it's time for the premium scrap to get off the control of liberty, and i don't mean to
remove the fields in texas, but i meant to add similar negra's for premium scrap mining, using the same drop rate as the one in
texas so it start attracting more quasi-lawful faction to whatever area it's added to. I would love to the same field in places in rheinland.

Respectfully,
Malmsteen

[nOmnomnOm]

You know... Part of me says "ok" but the other half of me says this is just a loaded thread. Its not telling a bunch of important things.

First off: remember the cheese - BMM run? Oh and also that long run involving buffed sorted artifacts through rheinland? Is that mentioned here? No? Well they were both at the time after pscrap and they went all the way till the crash happened.
So please dont tell me that smuggling was negligible. There was a lot of it.

2nd : when was the last time an RFP themselves caught smugglers and not other people not related the cops? Yeah. This may explain why you feel less travel... Because others are doing it for RFP.

3rd: not everyone goes to Gallia to sell their scrap. People still go through to Omicron alpha. I'v caught or heard of junkers going there.

4th: the route is better for both Gallia and O-alpha to go through the taus and not through rheinland. Pretty much it would be a much longer journey through rheinland and more dangerous for a smuggler anyway.

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[nOmnomnOm]

Double posting might be. Sorry.

Here is another thing!
Remember the buff for slaves and cardi? That same time when IND got busted ?
Wasn't that in the same time frame? Wasn't that done more than p-scrap?
Yeah ... And yet we dont hear about it here... Plus that run is a duel-smuggling run where-as your proposed trade route change is attempting to change things that make good prices already and is a 1-sided smuggle run. Oh and might I add both runs dont go through rheinland at it's ideal route.

Oh and remember when everyone was complaining that p-scrap is too large of price at alpha? Yeah... Im brining that up too.

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[Laura C.]

First off: remember the cheese - BMM run? Oh and also that long run involving buffed sorted artifacts through rheinland? Is that mentioned here? No? Well they were both at the time after pscrap and they went all the way till the crash happened.
So please dont tell me that smuggling was negligible. There was a lot of it.

Erm, it is written in my post:

This was not so obvious for some time because we had lot of smugglers with sorted artifacts from cargo buff event, which admins overlooked and let continue for much longer time than planned. But after its end, consequences of the change appeared in full effect and have negative impact on lawful factions.

2nd : when was the last time an RFP themselves caught smugglers and not other people not related the cops? Yeah. This may explain why you feel less travel... Because others are doing it for RFP.

I´m not sure what topic do you imply, maybe you can be more specific? But to answer the question, last one was few days ago (Sunday maybe? I´m not sure, someone else than me caught him), ship with artifacts.

4th: the route is better for both Gallia and O-alpha to go through the taus and not through rheinland. Pretty much it would be a much longer journey through rheinland and more dangerous for a smuggler anyway.

I´m aware of this problem, which is mainly connected to fact that one of the Taus was removed and now the way is shorter. But it is way harder to convince devs to change system layout than to simply change prices. Also, if the price for Gamma will be same or even better than in Alpha, more people will travel through Rheinland (but I believe this will happen in smaller scale even without it, because simply not everyone want to go through Taus or know about this way).

But generally, my point is that this change didn´t bring any benefit to anyone, only hit negatively several factions. Like jammi said

I think the dudes in charge of pricing would have an insanely hard time explaining how the current status quo benefits anyone .

Here is another thing!
Remember the buff for slaves and cardi? That same time when IND got busted ?
Wasn't that in the same time frame? Wasn't that done more than p-scrap?
Yeah ... And yet we dont hear about it here...

I´m not sure what you talk about. If you mean commodity buff events, last cardamine one happened in January (and cheese-BMM event you mentioned previously happened in April/May). And last time when IND got involved with contraband which I remember was actually connected to blood diamonds, it was in February or March. But what is your point?

Oh and remember when everyone was complaining that p-scrap is too large of price at alpha? Yeah... Im brining that up too.

This is Disco, someone is complaining about something constantly. What is your point?

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.

[Stoner_Steve]

I do not think changing the prices or locations will increase the number of smugglers in Rhineland

First off (as it stands now) going via the Tau's is far, far safer than running via Rhineland. At most you'll run into an IMG, and the literal worst they can do is chase you off (not that I don't think the miners aren't doing something productive, but they aren't a threat)

Secondly Rhineland does have a buffed commodity right now that I have run time and again, Cigars out of Rhineland to Alpha are buffed enormously, and while its legal to transport it out bound that still means I'm bringing Cardmine back into Rhineland to start the route again.

Thirdly the RFP has developed a bit of a reputation in smuggling circles as hard to work with and deal with because you aren't as bribeable as lets say LPI, applying the law equally isn't necessarily a bad thing however

Fourth, and most important to me, I avoid Rhineland when other players are around due to Rhinelands Policy of allowing anyone to take screen shots and submit it for a Fine, even if that person doesn't make any ingame indication and doesn't talk either. I won't fly somewhere that is inherently more risky to interaction because I don't want to have it bite me in the butt later.

[nOmnomnOm]

I do not understand how you dont understand what I am talking about. I made it pretty clear.
My point is that you, OP, stated a thread that makes the reader think it is all based on pscarp that there is a decline of smuggling. That is not the case actually.. P scrap has little involved with most houses.

if you would be so polite to wait though, I'll will post later to explain further how pscrap makes little connection to rheinland activity. I am on the train now and all posts are via phone so far.

Gimmy a few hours.

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[Laura C.]

I do not understand how you dont understand what I am talking about. I made it pretty clear.
My point is that you, OP, stated a thread that makes the reader think it is all based on pscarp that there is a decline of smuggling. That is not the case actually.. P scrap has little involved with most houses.

if you would be so polite to wait though, I'll will post later to explain further how pscrap makes little connection to rheinland activity. I am on the train now and all posts are via phone so far.

Gimmy a few hours.

Okay. Just my short note - my personal experience from time I´m in RFP is that I used to see many indie junkers going with premium scrap from Texas to Alpha and returning with cardamine on the way back. And this almost ceased to exist after the selling points change, amount of players who do this severely reduced. Even despite contraband profits were seriously buffed compared to crap what they used to be some time back.

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.