State of the server and the community.

[Trivjum]

I am making this thread because I love this server but I feel that there are many wrong things with it and I would like to address those things. As a member of the community, I think it's in my right to write my concerns down and how I feel things could be improved.

While this forum account is young, I have been playing for years, on and off but for years nonetheless. I have been here during the bad and good times of the server and we've really hit a low. I am no stranger to the server and it's denizens so do not use the age of my forum account against me as it will add nothing to the matter at hand.

I will preface by saying that I might use player names and I might use faction names. Some people may agree with me, others may not and that is okay. I am not here to insult anyone, any concerns I will talk about in this thread about individual players or factions are not personal attacks but simply reflect my own opinions. As such, any and all unconsctructive criticisms and replies will be ignored.

Now let's start. I will be as transparent as possible about all of this because I simply do not care in what light people see me, good or bad, it doesn't matter to me. What brought me to take the time to make this thread has been the action of certain factions and players that I feel are toxic to the community and ultimately contributes to a hostile community and hastens the death of the server.

So first, the rules. I feel that the rules are not only outdated but also scarcely enforced. Notably in the event of a siege as the current Reutlingen siege happening, the PVP rules simply aren't made for sieges. Sieges should have a separate set of rules or the current rules should be changed to reflect the possibility of sieges. Now what is wrong with the current rules in regard to sieges?

"4.1 If you die whilst in a PVP situation, in any form, that character/ship does not re-enter the same system for 2 hours and the Player, on any of their ships, cannot reengage the aggressors on any character for 2 hours. You are allowed a grace period of 5 minutes to leave the system with an empty cargo hold and you are safe from further attack during this grace period within that system. If the attacker(s) log off, you may re-enter the system you died in"

This rule works in skirmish scenarios but it simply doesn't work in siege scenarios, why? Because they last much longer than the average skirmish. It heavily favors the side with the most players for very simple reasons. Let's say you have a 10v15 skirmish, if one side dies and/or leaves, it's clear that one faction won and that's it, rule works fine, the skirmish is over and nothing else happens.

In the scenario of a 10v15 siege, the rule works very differently. In the circumstances that one side loses, the other side is 100% free to log all of their deceased characters back in to continue the siege with full numbers, effectively rendering any efforts of one faction completely null. Let's say we have 10 defenders against 15 attackers, the defenders will kill a few but ultimately, when the attackers win and the 10 defenders are PVP dead, the rules makes it so that any and all ships that the defenders might have killed are free to log back in and continue the siege on the base because Defenders, being ALL pvp dead are not allowed to come back in the system and will have to log out. Attackers on the other hand once the lesser defenders log out are free to log back in, totally ignoring said rule and continuing a siege in full force without a single loss in members.

"If the attacker(s) log off, you may re-enter the system you died in" This very line is the trouble. Additionally, any attacker that dies to weapon platforms are also free to simply treat it as PvE death, relog and go back to attack the base.

To stay on the subject of sieges and PoBs, I think there is an extreme unbalance somewhere in there. Ultimately, what do the attackers have to lose and what do the defender have to lose? There is a huge disconnect between both. The defender will ALWAYS risk weeks of work on a PoB while the attackers are risking nothing more than nanobots and shield batteries. There is a huge imbalance in that. For the attacker, a siege is always a high reward - low risk opportunity while it is the complete opposite for the owner of the PoB.

With PoBs being advertised as one of the main selling points of the server, they're rather useless and a waste of time. They're really only good for RP but truth is this won't get you anywhere. You will eventually get the PVP hungry portion of the community just wanting to destroy it, for what reason? Just because.

There are simply not enough rules surrounding PoB attack declaration threads, the owner risks it all but attackers have it so easy. What is needed to make a PoB? A lot of time and resources. What is needed to make an attack declaration of a PoB? Not much really. Very weak RP is needed, something that should not be the case.

Anyone can literally throw a dart at a random PoB and make a two line "RP" declaration on it and it's considered proper RP by the rules. It's the same with even ship to ship engagement rules. The rules are very slack, you can quite literally write two unoriginal lines and it's considered enough RP. When did the RP on this server get so dilluted? I feel like nobody cares anymore and everything goes.

The rules are outdated and not enforced enough. The RP is very weak and the community is a toxic and hostile environment.

Most of the community are now established players who already have their own circle of friends, this leaves no place for the new player. In fact, it drives away new players. I've seen tons of new players try something new, try to make a new faction, try to make a new PoB, try to do something only to get utterly shot down by all the veterans of the community. I have yet to see these players again too because their idea, instead of receiving constructive criticism and god forbids, some help, have just been shut down by the bitter toxic veterans of the community that want to keep the status quo and bully everyone that's under them.

The community is growing old and getting stale, with no fresh blood to keep things going, it means that any old player leaving the server will likely not get replaced. I feel like the community, the dev team, the admins, everyone has lost that spark. That passion for the server and the community.

We have old players who are now faction leaders making it their life's work to kill everyone for fun and to bully and grief the server while staying within the rules. We have old players who should know better putting an absolutely pathetic display of Roleplaying.

Worst of all is nobody seems to care. It seems like everyone is just kind of cruising along, letting things happen, admins seems to be idly sitting by just watching blatant acts of PVP with the weakest of RP possible just slip by with not a care in the world.

You have faction leaders who's main role in the community should be contributing to the RP instead try to have their factions get as many blues as possible and destroy as many bases as possible by using 2 set messages ingame and making 2 lines transmission on the forum to declare attacks.

You have members of said factions contributing to the problem by blindly following because they're also not interested in RP and just want to PVP, etc.

Point is, this server while advertised as RP is quite heavy in PVP. The RP used on this server is the absolute minimum of RP required to get that oh-so-satisfying blue message or space bucks. Faction leaders and members of these factions who should be advancing the RP are instead playing only for their own little Agenda. To brag about that next blue. To brag about having more spacebucks than the next player. It's absolutely ridiculous.

To recap, this community is Toxic. It is hostile. New players don't want to join because they get shot down trying to do anything new as old players don't want to help anyone or give constructive criticisms. Old players are getting tired because they've been playing too long and some of them are tired because the RP has been dilluted to the strict minimum two liners ingame AND on the forum. Bad Faction Leaders trying to keep the status quo amount to nothing more than bullies as they try to "Meme" as much as possible to validate their lives. Admins and Dev Team gives the impression of being too burnt out to do anything because they're also old players. Rules are outdated and bad. We have no real rules involving capital ships so factions and IDs that are allowed capital ships are free to attack with 20 of them regardless of if the enemy faction is only allowed bombers as their heaviest ship, We have Factions whose leaders have solely dedicated their factions to PVP (RHA, NC, GRN, etc) and they under absolutely no circumstances log on unless there's pure PVP to be had because RP is for losers and I could go on and on and on and on.

I know this is a huge post but it's just so hard to write everything that is wrong with the server and the community in one concise post. There's just so many things wrong, I could go on and on about it and never be done, I am salty and sad because I like this game and I like this server but I don't like the community. It is too established, too stale, the players in charge of making the server better are immature and kind of dicks, some of them getting banned because that's how bad their negativity is getting.

This server is not friendly to growth because the only people with the power to make things better and make the environment healthier for newer players are too busy trying to keep the Status Quo. Trying to stay in power by any means possible, trying to keep their little fantasy of being the bringer of death and blues on the server, trying to be the most hardcore "memelord" around.

This server needs new rules, needs new players, needs new faction leaders and new admins. Players, Faction Leaders, Admins that are fresh, that haven't lost their passion for the game and server, that would be happy to advance the RP and make good RP outside of the all too common two liners of RP we see right now.

Unfortunately, nothing can be done about this because the ones in charge and the ones with the power to change things simply don't want change. They are comfortable where they are regardless of how much it is killing the server.

At any rate, this has become a huge post and I think I have said enough. This is coming from deep down within me because I love this server but I know it will fall on deaf ears but it is my right to voice my concerns, I have used that right and that is all. If anyone is willing to make a change then do it, if not, then it's all downhill from here.

Again, any attempt at trolling or being a "memelord" or unconstructive criticisms will just be ignored by me so you are free to use your time to write anything you want but I will simply not waste my time with the useless replies.


TL;DR, This is why we can't have nice things and I make non-sensical walls of text because what's happening to the server affects me on a personal level as this is a place I spend most of my free time in and I want it to get better, not worst.

[Antonio]

With PoBs being advertised as one of the main selling points of the server, they're rather useless and a waste of time. They're really only good for RP but truth is this won't get you anywhere. You will eventually get the PVP hungry portion of the community just wanting to destroy it, for what reason? Just because.

When you're making a POB you know what you're getting yourself into and accept the risk that it might get threatened, attacked and destroyed one day. Might. It entirely depends on the actions of you and your friends or faction. One thing I know for sure though is that people don't blow up bases "just because". Let's look at our most popular POB recently, Reutligen. The only reason 90% of the people are sieging it is because it's in the mining field. Nothing else. If the base was outside of the field, nobody would care. There's always a good enough reason behind the siege because the siege mechanic itself is very unrewarding, boring and exhausting. No person wants to waste hours of his life afk right clicking an object if he doesn't have a good reason to. Mining field POB? Gives pretty much everyone a good reason, it's one of the most harmful things in terms of player interaction possible on the server.

[Ruairi]

I agree with 90% of this, especially the PoB section, and the "PvP hungry players" area. Which is pretty much the entire thing. I have nothing to add, just re-read those sections and let it sink in.

I think we have two other problems besides these:

- Freelancer is unadvertised and old, the only way to really learn about this is to hear about it from a friend or YouTuber (Bluedrake42), you can't just magically find it on the Steam Store or G2A when scrolling through. The OFFICIAL SITE is down for the game, so this game has almost no publicity.

- Adding onto the veteran area, this game naturally has a VERY high skill gap - the learning curve is quite huge, and new players who want to play this game CASUALLY have a very hard time. I think it's the hardcore PvP players driving away the casual players who just want to do some RP.

That's about all I got.

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hamburger

[Ruairi]

With PoBs being advertised as one of the main selling points of the server, they're rather useless and a waste of time. They're really only good for RP but truth is this won't get you anywhere. You will eventually get the PVP hungry portion of the community just wanting to destroy it, for what reason? Just because.

When you're making a POB you know what you're getting yourself into and accept the risk that it might get threatened, attacked and destroyed one day. Might. It entirely depends on the actions of you and your friends or faction. One thing I know for sure though is that people don't blow up bases "just because". Let's look at our most popular POB recently, Reutligen. The only reason 90% of the people are sieging it is because it's in the mining field. Nothing else. If the base was outside of the field, nobody would care. There's always a good enough reason behind the siege because the siege mechanic itself is very unrewarding, boring and exhausting. No person wants to waste hours of his life afk right clicking an object if he doesn't have a good reason to. Mining field POB? Gives pretty much everyone a good reason, it's one of the most harmful things in terms of player interaction possible on the server.

But it's quite stupid how it takes days, weeks, or even months to develop a PoB to a good standpoint, just to have it taken away when someone just says "pay me, or base goes boom", then "you didn't pay, base goes bye-bye", then fleets of battleships come to destroy it within hours.

Months of work can be destroyed within hours. That's just stupid!

[Ruairi]

With PoBs being advertised as one of the main selling points of the server, they're rather useless and a waste of time. They're really only good for RP but truth is this won't get you anywhere. You will eventually get the PVP hungry portion of the community just wanting to destroy it, for what reason? Just because.

When you're making a POB you know what you're getting yourself into and accept the risk that it might get threatened, attacked and destroyed one day. Might. It entirely depends on the actions of you and your friends or faction. One thing I know for sure though is that people don't blow up bases "just because". Let's look at our most popular POB recently, Reutligen. The only reason 90% of the people are sieging it is because it's in the mining field. Nothing else. If the base was outside of the field, nobody would care. There's always a good enough reason behind the siege because the siege mechanic itself is very unrewarding, boring and exhausting. No person wants to waste hours of his life afk right clicking an object if he doesn't have a good reason to. Mining field POB? Gives pretty much everyone a good reason, it's one of the most harmful things in terms of player interaction possible on the server.

But it's quite stupid how it takes days, weeks, or even months to develop a PoB to a good standpoint, just to have it taken away when someone just says "pay me, or base goes boom", then "you didn't pay, base goes bye-bye", then fleets of battleships come to destroy it within hours.

Months of work can be destroyed within hours. That's just stupid!

To add to that, it's not enjoyable for both parties. PVP can be enjoyed for both parties, RP can be enjoyed for both parties, but does having you months of work destroyed sound fun to you? This can easily be improved if there was higher reasons of RP leading up to the siege, so that it feels more dramatic and RP relevant, rather than just destruction-seeking jerks.

[Stygian]

TL;DR, My type of fun is more important than yours.

Sorry for such a short reply but that is all these types of rants boil down to. Really, PvP is a type of roleplay.

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[Antonio]

With PoBs being advertised as one of the main selling points of the server, they're rather useless and a waste of time. They're really only good for RP but truth is this won't get you anywhere. You will eventually get the PVP hungry portion of the community just wanting to destroy it, for what reason? Just because.

When you're making a POB you know what you're getting yourself into and accept the risk that it might get threatened, attacked and destroyed one day. Might. It entirely depends on the actions of you and your friends or faction. One thing I know for sure though is that people don't blow up bases "just because". Let's look at our most popular POB recently, Reutligen. The only reason 90% of the people are sieging it is because it's in the mining field. Nothing else. If the base was outside of the field, nobody would care. There's always a good enough reason behind the siege because the siege mechanic itself is very unrewarding, boring and exhausting. No person wants to waste hours of his life afk right clicking an object if he doesn't have a good reason to. Mining field POB? Gives pretty much everyone a good reason, it's one of the most harmful things in terms of player interaction possible on the server.

But it's quite stupid how it takes days, weeks, or even months to develop a PoB to a good standpoint, just to have it taken away when someone just says "pay me, or base goes boom", then "you didn't pay, base goes bye-bye", then fleets of battleships come to destroy it within hours.

Months of work can be destroyed within hours. That's just stupid!

Yes, and the POB owners are aware of that. They accept that all their hard work can be gone in a day the second they deployed that POB. If it was the other way around, where they were told the base is indestructible only to later find out they'll lose a base after they made it, then it'd make sense to complain. It's ludicrous how 99% of the POB owners act when their POB comes under the spotlight, when they themselves are the only people to blame. Not the community, not the admins, not the devs.

[Sanctions]

Toxic post inc.
Carry the responsibility for your actions. Going for a tamagochi toy knows as "PoB"? Expect the consequences, diplomacy and connections are your best friends in that case.
You realise the absence of peeveepee skills? Well, then either go train hard as heck or avoid any interactions by being neutral (even ID-wise).
Stronger ones will always abuse their powers, no one's going to babysit you, kind of like it is IRL. Some players are here solely for PvP and you can't do anything about that but cry, it was purely a PvP game after all while RP which came with this mod was an addition allowing the further logical development of the whole thing.
It's just every year that someone like you come here and whine about how harsh local environments are and how badly things need to be changed. And thankfully there are still vets around that won't let this thing turn utter craps because of newbies who couldn't handle some aspects (btw a good portion of players stay useless even after being here for years). Some implementations have already influenced the gameplay in a bad way, can't go any further.
Nothing personal, but power is an achievement.

[Demonic]

When you're making a POB you know what you're getting yourself into and accept the risk that it might get threatened, attacked and destroyed one day. Might. It entirely depends on the actions of you and your friends or faction. One thing I know for sure though is that people don't blow up bases "just because". Let's look at our most popular POB recently, Reutligen. The only reason 90% of the people are sieging it is because it's in the mining field. Nothing else. If the base was outside of the field, nobody would care. There's always a good enough reason behind the siege because the siege mechanic itself is very unrewarding, boring and exhausting. No person wants to waste hours of his life afk right clicking an object if he doesn't have a good reason to. Mining field POB? Gives pretty much everyone a good reason, it's one of the most harmful things in terms of player interaction possible on the server.

A, he's not asking for PoB not being blown, he's asking for the siege to actually cost the attackers something.
B, The fact that Reutligen is not OK is quite accepted. What I do not accept though, is this siege beginning after one short thread in the spirit of "pay or dai". The siege is fully ooRP as of now. Because that lame excuse of a thread is not enough RP in my eyes. Develop some decent RP if you really want to destroy that thing. Ends do not justify means. and blowing up a base ooRPly because it's against the rules is douchebagery.

TL;DR, My type of fun is more important than yours.

Sorry for such a short reply but that is all these types of rants boil down to. Really, PvP is a type of roleplay.

PvP is not a type of roleplay mate. PvP is PvP, nothing more nothing less. A skill driven player fight. It is a part of RP, sure, but not it's type. And mind I remind you Disco is RP server? Go shoot something on different server if you so desire, or accept the fact that any fight should be driven by some RP reason here on this server.

Toxic post inc.
Carry the responsibility for your actions. Going for a tamagochi toy knows as "PoB"? Expect the consequences, diplomacy and connections are your best friends in that case.
You realise the absence of peeveepee skills? Well, then either go train hard as heck or avoid any interactions by being neutral (even ID-wise).
Stronger ones will always abuse their powers, no one's going to babysit you, kind of like it is IRL.

So, is it okay for the strong ones to abuse their powers? Even here, in a blasted GAME that is supposed to be fun?

Some players are here solely for PvP and you can't do anything about that but cry, it was purely a PvP game after all while RP which came with this mod was an addition allowing the further logical development of the whole thing.
It's just every year that someone like you come here and whine about how harsh local environments are and how badly things need to be changed. And thankfully there are still vets around that won't let this thing turn utter craps because of newbies who couldn't handle some aspects (btw a good portion of players stay useless even after being here for years). Some implementations have already influenced the gameplay in a bad way, can't go any further.
Nothing personal, but power is an achievement.

I'm sorry but if someone is here just for PvP then he should stay in Conn, learn RP at least a bit, or go to different server. Discovery is an RP server. Freelancer is skill based space shooter. Merged together it crates a unique environment and you can't just put aside what you don't like.

PoB owners can't make their bases invicible, but on the other side, the PvP croud should realize they are not allowed to put RP aside and shoot just 'cause.

On the topic of the recent drama theme, Reutligen, I'll quote what I wrote on skype somewhere.

"the fact the base is in a grey area of rules and harmfull behaviour is there and we all know it. The way how RHA handles this thing is toxic and bad."

The threat and the subsequent attack came out of the blue, with illogical RP reasoning. While I support the idea the base whould be moved (well or destroyed as a last case scenario) I do not agree with ends justyfing the means. Do it properly or don't do it at all.

[Kauket]

What I do not accept though, is this siege beginning after one short thread in the spirit of "pay or dai". The siege is fully ooRP as of now. Because that lame excuse of a thread is not enough RP in my eyes. Develop some decent RP if you really want to destroy that thing. Ends do not justify means. and blowing up a base ooRPly because it's against the rules is douchebagery.

Red Hessians are enemies of Kruger. They're the miners that they're rebelling against. Kruger. Who are a mining corp. They're also against DHC.

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