Following the discussions about The Order that took place lately, notably here (Wolfpack's thread): http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28935
I'm posting a new thread on this subject. What I'll say now is not the final ruling or anything, just an update on the information that we already have. Admins agreed that it should be posted separately from previous discussions.
1) Order cannot get fully neutral to Liberty.
There's no gound for such an overnight change of policies. Liberty considered Order an outlaw group, and now, with military gaining even more influence and with this new ambiguous conflict with Rheinland, relationships between Order and liberty will hardly get better.
Still I don't see a way how Order capital ships can get to NY. Through Alaska space? Passage to NY is supposed to be heavily guarded. Even if Order could break through, they would hardly waste their scarce capital ships for fights they cannot truly win. So, there's no actual RP ground for capship assaults against NY by The Order.
Order fighter raids both in Liberty and in other places of Sirius can be considered logical.
2) Player factions cannot rule over other player groups and indie players affiliated with the same NPC faction.
Selected players may have special RP for them, player faction on the whole may also have some differences in RP from what NPC faction does. But this doesn't mean that other players should follow this example.
Some unofficial diplomacy changes may get hardcoded into the mod, IF they don't contradict official story and IF they are logical and suitable for further development.
Neutrality between Order and Liberty does contradict official story, and can be approved only for specific characters or groups, but not for The Order as whole.
As for The Order leadership, I'll leave that matter for future discussions. It should be clear enough acts of The Order players should be determined by Order's diplomatic status (hardcoded into the mod) and Discovery RP rules prior to everything else.
3) Player factions cannot prevent other players affiliated with the same NPC faction from using the guard system.
Another complex issue, and also requires further discussions. This will limit the rights of a player faction in their home space. However, it seems to be unavoidable for the future 4.85 release, since many capships are getting moved into guard systems.
Our general opinion is that player factions, regardless of their participation in server events, should not dictate how other players of other groups are playing. Special RP that differs from/expands on what's present in the mod is OK. Enforcing special RP for players who don't want it, and are not even supposed to be aware of it, is no good. Also, the fact that we allow this special RP does not guarantee that it will get hardcoded into the mod for future versions.
I am going to ask one question, and it already seems logical to me, but some players might use the vagueness of your comments to rule lawyer and justify.
The question is, can player factions restrict access to equipment and ships sold in guard systems from players of the same NPC faction?
I ask because this I think gets to the crux of the matter, and needs to be clearly stated.
Quote:3) Player factions cannot prevent other players affiliated with the same NPC faction from using the guard system.
I must protest. You are rendering our extremely sizable investments largely worthless so as not to impinge on the rights of minorities, yet you're placing capships in Guard systems so as not to make them as easily accessible to lolwutting morons who haven't even read the rules. You're removing the legal basis for that method's strongest pillar, the player faction! If a player wants to fly a Dreadnought within the confines of vanilla Outcast RP he is welcome to do so, all he has to do is inform us of what he wants to do and list the basic parameters of his ship and crew. To my knowledge the only faction with harsher restrictions is the RM, as anything stronger than that is impossible to enforce. It's not like we're asking the world, here, we're trying to keep the server less clogged with pvp whores. Restrict what the factions can restrict, but don't outlaw it and strip us of our largest and most prized power, the sovereignty over our own space. As you have it now, a faction can work its collective butt off and pay the Admins and a very expensive system modder for the privilege of adding a new piece of space to the game, but not actually have the control over it they were promised; it's not theirs, like they were told.
Quote:Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen
I totaly agree with Igiss on this on to be honest. And no offence Eppy. It was you that gave me this point of veiw on this. When you banned RoS from Omi 85. And also tried to claim Alpha as your own because you were the system owning faction. Its a game that we are all here to enjoy. And each of us should have the same rights to a fair and enjoyable time.
Of course I banned RoS from 85, Chris, what did you expect? We almost got trampled by the NovaPG and you refused to back us up because you didn't want to hurt Tony's feelings, which to me speaks of a greater commitment to the Blood Dragons than the Outcasts and warranted some kind of reprisal. As for claiming Alpha, I was wrong. Okay? It's not mine, I just guard it. It's everybody's, I'm not making a claim to it. All I'm making a claim to is the system I paid for and was promised total sovereignty over. When a lolwutting arse or some grudge-holding scumbag runs into my system and buys the largest ship he can and sits above the base Nightfall tailor-made for our faction, taunting my pilots. I think I should have plenty jurisdiction to blow the SOB up. One man is ruining an entire faction's enjoyment, and I will NOT stand for it.
Quote:Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen
I didn't give a care about Tony OR the NovaPG, for God's sake! He bloody came after me and tried to go to war because I turned him in for some rather un-admin-like conduct and tried to break off ties with the NovaPG! I didn't CARE about Tony at all. All I was doing was looking out for my faction, and I'll thank you not to demonize me. I didn't want to bloody trample the NovaPG, I just wanted to repel them before Tony decided he wanted to lay claim to bloody Alpha.
Quote:Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen
So because we didnt want to get involved you banned us from your system. And tried to reposes our OC drednaught. Because it was sold on your base. Thats my exact point right there. Thanks.
The reason why capital ships are in guard systems is so that people can't get the ships unless they are at least friendly with their NPC guard faction. Thus you don't get Hessians grabbing Rheinland Battleships (Usually).
It makes it harder for people to get these 'all powerful' ships basically.
It doesn't mean the player faction can restrict complete docking rights etc. Considering that player factions may not be the entire NPC faction, that just makes common sense.
However, if stations were made to be player faction specific (IE, a shipyard that is only for the RoS) then proper rules could be brought in to allow the RoS to enforce their laws in regards to that station and what it contains.
However it would mean that non-player faction specific ships would have to be contained at NPC faction guard bases that are not player faction controlled.
Overall however, having certain stations as player faction specific might solve a lot of these issues.
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