Nephilim discussion

[Fish]

Hi.

I've been thinking ever since I read Sombra's replies in the recent Zoner ID threads, why does the Nephilim get used as an OP ZOI battleship by lolwuts? Because it has a huge powercore, a huge hull, the most shield batteries, infinite firing Zoner prims and the prims and heavies fire in any direction.

I've replied to one of the threads, but since it got ignored mostly I thought I'd make a thread dedicated to what I feel should be done to fix the Nephilim's reputation without actually removing it from the mod entirely.

The first thing I thought of was the powercore. A floating city that doesn't need to dock for decades on end lorewise is expected to have an ultramassive powercore, but in the future that Discovery takes place in, you'd expect the engineers to be able to divert only the needed percentage to the weapons and the rest to the other systems. I feel like it would be much better (not for PVP, it wasnt meant for battles inRP) if it had a 7,000,000/220,000 powercore. The hull and shield batteries should stay the same because it wouldn't make sense for such a big ship to have tinfoil armour. It would (in my mind) stop newbies who are only looking for the strongest battleships to fight other battleships from using the Nephilim to fight literally anyone anywhere. To "balance" this, better secondary turret arcs would be useful - currently only 2 fire directly backwards and none fire downwards. For a ship that was meant to fly alone and be able to defend itself from anything, this doesn't really make sense. All the guns fire forward, which is what you'd expect from a warship.

The second thing that came to mind in case the nerf strategy triggered to many people is to make it official faction only. This needs no explanation.

And then there's the most recent idea I had. To make it an SRP ship, that you have to gather the resources, take them to the base where it's built, and wait a while for them to "build" it. Because it just doesn't make sense seeing dozens of them flying around when so few exist inRP. That way, Nephilim players would work hard to get what they want. They wouldn't just be "those guys who use trader money to buy a big battleship and fight everyone." They would be "those guys who were willing to put in a lot of effort to obtain what they really wanted" - at least that's what I think.


Please, please do not remove this ship from the mod, at least not because of something someone did that could have been prevented. There is so much potential and so many possibilities with it.

PS. This is not me demanding that something be done, this is me trying to get the devs to notice that something can be changed for the better. At the very least to avoid future problems.

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[Epo]

Speaking about making any caps SRP or Faction only, I'm strongly against it. It kinda kills some of the opportunities that might be generated using the ship. Obtaining one via construction RP wouldn't be a bad idea tho, as the Nephilim isn't (and never was) to be a PVP vessel, but a mobile colony for people who left civilised area. It would force people to put some effort in order to obtain Neph, what's a good idea in case of most if not all battleships.

TL : DR ==> Making a heavy cap more difficult to obtain, but actually possible and available to everyone is a cool idea. Forcing people to put some effort in order to obtain a cap is always a good idea.

Speaking about the powercore... In my feeling Nephilim has never been a ship even worth using for PVP purposes. It is huge and fat, making it very easy to hit , while you may have problems with hitting some smaller battleships for example. It's quite decent vessel for tanking, but definitely not useful for PVP. I'm not sure if it got changed recently, but well, the Neph is rather a meh shippie, apart from the sexy design and look.

[Inferno]

FIsh don't you nerf the Neph mere hours before I get it :p

But speaking as a member of [LN] I can agree completely on the lolut part. The past five months, there has been seven Nephilim sightings in Liberty. Four of those ended up with them no-RP shooting us 'in defense of Bethlehem,' one cloak-running to Freeport 2, and two actually doing sufficient roleplay (Eurobeat for one in particular because he actually asked for permission to do things. You are the best Nephilim pilot I've seen to date.) If you are a Zoner, that doesn't give you the right to use a mobile city as a warship (even though that is what the ID and Laws of Sirius calls it)

I think there should be a revision that prevents Nephilim-Zoner ships from shooting ships inside House space, or something.
It's hard to balance such a strange ID without making it complete garbage.

[moebus]

I don' t think it would be fair regarding other factions to make the nephilim SRP or restricted to zoner factions. I mean, if the nephilim becomes restricted then all caps should be restricted in the same way for all factions. (despite this would be my preferred option that all caps are restricted I know this won't happen on disco)

What would make sense to me, is to transform the nephilim in to a colony ship as it is supposed to be: adjust the number and power of turrets, reduce the powercore efficiency, etc.

Gathering resources is also a good idea and it should be done for all caps, not only nephelim.

Now, if it is going to be SRP and faction restricted then I would request the SRP/restriction applies only to fully armed nephilim (i.e nephilim using 50%* of the turret slots should not be restricted).
*or any agreed number

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[Shelco]

Had to chuckle when I saw the Nephilim in your signature, buddy, material gathering would only be fair if everyone has to do it so I'd say officials only or nerf for now.

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[HuggieSunrise]

The ship is huge. Its unwieldy. its a target.

Its a lesson.

I dont care if it can fire forever without repercussion if you engage that fat sack of fat with no other strategy than to barril in blasting away you deserve to learn the lesson that you as a pilot. SUCK.

I dare anyone with a problem with the thing explain to me why an inch more experienced pilot in arguable one of the worst tiny caps can kill one quite easily. (bullhead) I've seen light cruisers kill them.. TWO bombers even. the ship is not overpowered. and anyone thinking it is isnt spending enough time ingame or in conn to know.

Also.. Its reputation? what is this gun control? dont shame the vehicle shame the idiot using it. thats where your attention ought to be.

there was no option to remove this poll from the mod i picked the next best thing.

[Sombs]

Nothing needs to be changed about the Nephilim itself. Regulation so far has always worked by the community. Once the Vagrants have access to Marduks, we will take care of lolwut Nephilims just like any other faction has done so far. Yeah, it's stupid inRP, but let the people work towards something and let us have our prey, to be honest. Maybe nerf the power core and add more hull instead. Make it defensive, not offensive.

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[Fish]

We can pretend like any nephilim that doesnt carry an IRG or TAZ tag has no ruined reputation (thanks to the idiots who tend to use them as warships, which sombra pointed out), but the fact is every indie neph(at least every one i know about) has been disregarded in the past, and at best acknowledged in a message dump only to be ignored again later. What i'm saying is not that the neph is a bad ship and the lolwuts arent wrong, what i'm saying - or rather what i'm ASKING is what the community thinks would be the best thing to do to with the nephilim so that it doesnt end up getting deleted for a stupid reason.

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[Arioch]

Personally I'm for restricting them to official Factions/SRP. Primarily because it mates the lore. Colony ships are meant to be rare. They are meant to be few in number. They are meant to be extremely expensive to construct, and are meant to house a TON of Zoners using it as a home. To have a ton of Nephs flying around doesn't make a lot of sense to me, given their rarity in lore/RP. I respect the SCRA and Nomads for having their caps restricted, given their background supports such. SCRA don't have the manpower and resources to pump out caps left and right. Marduks and bigger caps are rare for Nomads, as only the most evolved get those "forms".

That is not to say that you can ONLY RP a Nephilim as a Colony ship, but it should be restricted. Hell, in many official factions you can't get a cap anyway until you rank up. I don't see why this should be any different.

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[Freeroamer]

*Freeroamer appears from under a rock* I think that it should be managed in a way that it must be requested but not exactly as strict and difficult to attain such as in an SRP. I'd say restrict it to officials and also make it something that can be requested with some degree of role play.