Question, traders and pvp

[sovereign]

I lied. I have more than one question. These should be yes or no, if you answer please give yes or no, or terms upon which yes or no. Thank you.


<musing>
Pirate Patty sees Trader Timmy coming along the road (lane, JH, whatever). Pirate Patty, as I understand, is allowed to rip Trader Timmy's shield and hull from him so long as she doesn't kill him before making a demand. So, Pirate Patty flings some pain and gets rid of Timmy's shield. Timmy has had his shield reduced below 50%. If it was Lawman Larry not Trader Timmy, this would be open pvp and they could blow each other up without worry. But it's Trader Timmy. Can Trader Timmy shoot Pirate Patty to death by the rules? Also, as the removal of the shield declares a PvP (as the rules read) wouldn't this mean that Pirate Patty could shoot back if Trader Timmy shoots her below 50% of her own shield?
</musing>


Assume for all of these that engagement rules are followed (saying stuff, not shield-running, etc) but that no demand is given unless specifically stated. Levels of complication vary wildly, some should be very obvious (but still clarified just in case) and some may be... problematic.


1) Pirate Patty gets Trader Timmy's shield below half (legal, as I understand), then Trader Timmy responds by shooting Pirate Patty's shield below half (also legal, as I understand), then can Pirate Patty kill Trader Timmy?

2) Trader Timmy sees Pirate Patty along and assumes that Pirate Patty will start flinging lasers into him, and takes Pirate Patty's shields below half.
2A) Trader Timmy manages to kill Pirate Patty before Pirate Patty gets Trader Timmy's shield to half. Who can be sanctioned, if anyone?
2B) Trader Timmy manages to kill Pirate Patty, but Pirate Patty gets Trader Timmy's shield to half. Who can be sanctioned, if anyone?
2C) Pirate Patty manages to kill Trader Timmy after he shoots her shields below half. Who can be sanctioned, if anyone?

3) Pirate Patty gets Trader Timmy's shields below half, and Trader Timmy gets Pirate Patty's shields below half. Trader Timmy runs away to a base and docks. He undocks, and sees that Pirate Patty is still there.
3A) Can Pirate Patty shoot Trader Timmy to death?
3B) Can Trader Timmy shoot Pirate Patty to death?

4) Trader Timmy shoots Pirate Patty's shields below half. Trader Timmy and Pirate Patty start fighting. Pirate-Cruiser Bobby is not grouped with Pirate Patty, but bears the same ID/IFF. Pirate-Cruiser Bobby was not close enough to Trader Timmy for him to be considered when Trader Timmy decides to fight. He is also unaware of how the engagement started unless specified otherwise.
4A) Pirate Patty has not yet gotten Trader Timmy's shields below half, when Pirate-Cruiser Bobby chances by and notices that Pirate Patty is losing. If Pirate-Cruiser Bobby shoots at Trader Timmy in defense of Pirate Patty, can he be sanctioned?
4B) 4A, but Pirate Patty mentions that Trader Timmy shot first before Bobby opens fire.
4C) 4B, but Trader Timmy confirms it.
4D) 4A, but Pirate Patty has gotten Trader Timmy's shields below half before Bobby shows up.
4E) 4D, but Pirate Patty mentions that Trader Timmy shot first before Bobby opens fire.
4F) 4E, but Trader Timmy confirms it.
4G) 4F, but Pirate Patty gave a demand before Trader Timmy opened fire the first time.



Thank you.

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[Unseelie]

1: I believe yes.
2a-c: no one, I believe all these scenarios are acceptable.
3: I think the pirate has to make new demands, as its a new engagement, and the trader cannot attack, as he fled.
all of 4: I believe so. Pirate cruisers are -not allowed- to attack trader IDs, so far as I'm aware

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[swift]

Timmy Patty Timmy Patty Timmy Patty..Oh no my head hurts..

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<span style="color:#000000">All morons hate it when you call them a moron.

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<span style="color:#33FF33">CFF Communication Channel and RP Collection</span>

[Reverend Del]

Unseelie gets a cookie for knowledge of the rules.

*Hands Unseelie a cookie*

Cruisers and above of any faction cannot attack a Trader/Smuggler

The moment the Trader starts shooting demands go out the window.

Once the Trader docks he's fled, if he open's fire he's re-engaging, if the trader kills without making demand then he's in deep trouble.

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.

[Unseelie]

Unseelie gets a cookie for knowledge of the rules.

*Hands Unseelie a cookie*

Cruisers and above of any faction cannot attack a Trader/Smuggler

Any faction? Even if they're carrying illegal goods? The RM or the BHG or the BAF or the LN...etc...the OC, the Sairs...

No capital of any faction above a gunboat can attack a trader/smuggler at any time?
Is that correct?
I was under the impression that only pirates were so constrained. If the rules have changed, and this is so...That's wonderful.

Also:
*Unseelie eats cookie, getting crumbs everywhere.*

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[AdamantineFist]

Unseelie gets a cookie for knowledge of the rules.

*Hands Unseelie a cookie*

Cruisers and above of any faction cannot attack a Trader/Smuggler

The moment the Trader starts shooting demands go out the window.

Once the Trader docks he's fled, if he open's fire he's re-engaging, if the trader kills without making demand then he's in deep trouble.

What if Trader Timmy sees the cruiser after the engagement starts, and attacks the cruiser, somehow bringing its shields below half. Is it then allowed fort he cruiser to open fire on the trader?

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[Grimly]

Due to last problems with some corsairs cruisers killing transports full of passagers in Crete, the rule is applying to everyone (Lawfull included).

Anyway, a gunboat stay deadly to a trader ship ^^'.

EDIT :

What if Trader Timmy sees the cruiser after the engagement starts, and attacks the cruiser, somehow bringing its shields below half. Is it then allowed fort he cruiser to open fire on the trader?

Yes.
The self defense make void any other pvp rule.
Defend yourself with everything you can, except your battleship hiding in the nearest station;)

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Taking what's yours since 816 A.S.

[Kambei]

If Timi try to shoot me once I'll shoot him too... there is mathematical formula.

X = A/C+B/D

X = number of shots into Timi
A = Timi's hull
B = Timi's shields
C = damage of all my weapons togeather in one shot against hull
D = damage of all my weapons togeather in one shot against shields

Math is clear and allways fair:laugh:

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[sovereign]

Answers edited in, much as I expected. Danke. Now, about Adamantine Fist's question.

5) As 4, but replace Pirate Patty with Lawman Larry, Trader Timmy with Contraband-Carrying Chris, and Pirate-Cruiser Bobby with Navy-Cruiser Nathan.

Same answers (Navy-Cruiser Nathan can be sanctioned, that is)? I'm assuming yes, but further clarification can't hurt (not that I have a cruiser, but for the sake of the good blokes who do).

Assume for all of these that engagement rules are followed (saying stuff, not shield-running, etc) but that no demand is given unless specifically stated. Levels of complication vary wildly, some should be very obvious (but still clarified just in case) and some may be... problematic.


1) Pirate Patty gets Trader Timmy's shield below half (legal, as I understand), then Trader Timmy responds by shooting Pirate Patty's shield below half (also legal, as I understand), then can Pirate Patty kill Trader Timmy?

Answer: Yes, it is fine.

2) Trader Timmy sees Pirate Patty along and assumes that Pirate Patty will start flinging lasers into him, and takes Pirate Patty's shields below half.
2A) Trader Timmy manages to kill Pirate Patty before Pirate Patty gets Trader Timmy's shield to half. Who can be sanctioned, if anyone?
2B) Trader Timmy manages to kill Pirate Patty, but Pirate Patty gets Trader Timmy's shield to half. Who can be sanctioned, if anyone?
2C) Pirate Patty manages to kill Trader Timmy after he shoots her shields below half. Who can be sanctioned, if anyone?

Answer: No, everyone is in the clear.

3) Pirate Patty gets Trader Timmy's shields below half, and Trader Timmy gets Pirate Patty's shields below half. Trader Timmy runs away to a base and docks. He undocks, and sees that Pirate Patty is still there.
3A) Can Pirate Patty shoot Trader Timmy to death?

Answer: Not unless he refuses a demand.

3B) Can Trader Timmy shoot Pirate Patty to death?

Answer: Not unless Pirate Patty shoots first.

4) Trader Timmy shoots Pirate Patty's shields below half. Trader Timmy and Pirate Patty start fighting. Pirate-Cruiser Bobby is not grouped with Pirate Patty, but bears the same ID/IFF. Pirate-Cruiser Bobby was not close enough to Trader Timmy for him to be considered when Trader Timmy decides to fight. He is also unaware of how the engagement started unless specified otherwise.
4A) Pirate Patty has not yet gotten Trader Timmy's shields below half, when Pirate-Cruiser Bobby chances by and notices that Pirate Patty is losing. If Pirate-Cruiser Bobby shoots at Trader Timmy in defense of Pirate Patty, can he be sanctioned?
4B) 4A, but Pirate Patty mentions that Trader Timmy shot first before Bobby opens fire.
4C) 4B, but Trader Timmy confirms it.
4D) 4A, but Pirate Patty has gotten Trader Timmy's shields below half before Bobby shows up.
4E) 4D, but Pirate Patty mentions that Trader Timmy shot first before Bobby opens fire.
4F) 4E, but Trader Timmy confirms it.
4G) 4F, but Pirate Patty gave a demand before Trader Timmy opened fire the first time.

Answer: Yes, Pirate-Cruiser Bobby can be sanctioned under all listed circumstances.

Thank you.

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[Grimly]

Same things with Larry, Chris and Nathan. Only the factions changes.

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Taking what's yours since 816 A.S.