Player Sanctioned: Misfit

[sindroms]

Misfit has been sanctioned for:

4.4 Every char must have only one type of ID equipped and they must play to that ID.
4. Mercenaries, freelancers and bounty hunters may be hired on the spot in game by non-generic IDed players to assist with a combat without a forum post. The other parties involved in the combat must be made aware of this.

Consequences: Bastilled.

A Liberty Rogue cruiser was being chased by a Liberty Battleship, which had no way to catch it. You were inclined to, however, CD the ship which resulted in it being destroyed. While a CD does not constitute a direct attack, the resulting actions were.

The issue here is that we cannot find you registered on any active bounty board that would allow you to engage Liberty Rogues.
We also do not see the Battleship hiring you ingame in local for the other player to see.

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Original Link for Admin/Mod Use | Discovery Server & Forums Rules | Before You Post Here

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If you require evidence, you may request such via PM from a Staff member. Only the accused or an official faction leader of the accused person's faction may request such. Once you have the evidence, and if you wish to dispute it, you may post in the Sanction Thread below. Do not continue PM'ing a staff member, as that will result in your Appeal being denied. If you PM a staff or post in the sanction thread and you are not directly involved, you are consenting to be subjected to the reprisal of my choice which may involve in game repercussions up to a ban. Blaming members of your immediate family, neighbors, friends, pets, and assorted Orcs, Trolls and any other legendary creatures may result in the use of Admin Right #CTE 750AE

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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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[Misfit]

Yeah I remember this, and it is fair to sanction me for this even though I never directly attacked the ship, only CDed it.

I've worked with this battleship on numerous occasions where I was just a CDer, though this time it was only after the ship was killed that we discussed my payment and such. The reporter had no idea that we had a working relationship inRP, so I totally understand this sanction and that I should have asked the battleship before hand if I should CD the Rogue, rather than just start CDing him as he tried to run off knowing that I'd get paid anyway.

Though I will say, I don't recall ever attacking the ship and as you said, a CD does not constitute an attack.

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[sindroms]

Your actions were the direct reason for the PVP death of a player, as you - as you said just now, assisted the battleship.
You assisted a player in a PVP encounter, meaning you were a part of the PVP encounter.

You both had to make that clear before doing so.
The rule states assisting in combat. It does not specify engaging the target with guns.

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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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[Misfit]

Yes I understand that it should have been made clear in front of the other party about my employment and I accept that, what I don't understand is why this specific instance of using a CD counts as an attack against another player when it never has been before.

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[sindroms]

I've worked with this battleship on numerous occasions where I was just a CDer [...]

4. Mercenaries, freelancers and bounty hunters may be hired on the spot in game by non-generic IDed players to assist with a combat without a forum post. The other parties involved in the combat must be made aware of this.

Since the Freelancer ID is not allied to the Liberty Navy ID, you were not assisting allied ships in this case.

Yes I understand that it should have been made clear in front of the other party about my employment and I accept that, what I don't understand is why this specific instance of using a CD counts as an attack against another player when it never has been before.

Because it seems as though the previous such instances, if there were any, were not reported by the players you have done this against. Had they been, we would have processed them the same.
Your sanction stands.

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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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[Misfit]

Since the Freelancer ID is not allied to the Liberty Navy ID, you were not assist allied ships in this case.

Are Freelancers allegiances not defined by their individual rep sheet?

Because it seems as though the previous such instances, if there were any, were not reported by the players you have done this against. Had they been, we would have processed them the same.

The previous instances weren't reported because I was already under the employ of the battleship and the other party was aware, and as I've repeatedly stated, I understand that I should have made the other party aware before I fired CDs during their engagement to stop them running away.

Here is my understanding.

I fired CDs at the destroyer while it was trying to run away from the battleship outside Manhattan. That's fine, that's not an attack nor a sanctionable offence.

The battleship then started it's engagement but didn't hire me on the spot like it should have. During the course of their engagement, I fired a couple more CDs to prevent the destroyer from cruising away which is what I've done previously under the employ of the battleship. This is apparently where the problem lies, because apparently firing CDs into an already happening engagement counts as attacking a ship and becoming part of the engagement.

Even though I was paid as normal after the engagement which didn't involve me other than CDs (in fact I'm sure the battleship said something about the usual fee or whatever), we never made it clear before the battleship started it's engagement that we were working together like we usually do.

If that's the case, then yes I understand this sanction and I submit to you taking whatever off my ship and releasing it or however it is these things work.

[sindroms]

I fired CDs at the destroyer while it was trying to run away from the battleship outside Manhattan. That's fine, that's not an attack nor a sanctionable offence.

A CD is not an attack, no. However, since your interference, unhired, resulted in the player's PVP death, we ruled it to be a hostile action - an attack in your case. Context is everything and this is why reports are processed by the staff members to discuss the situation.

We suggest that if you want to act without needing to be bound to that particular mercinary rule, either sign up to a bounty board or use an ID that can either engage unlawfuls in Liberty on sight or ones that can assist your friend by having Liberty Navy stated as ALLIED in the character reputation menu.

Are Freelancers allegiances not defined by their individual rep sheet?

No.
Regular non-generic faction's allies are defined by the ALLIES: section in the reputation menu.
Freelancer allies are defined by people who hired them ingame or the boards they are signed up with - so in a way they are individual. Just that the reference must be stated ingame during hiring or on the forums in the bounty board roster.

[St.Denis]

Loss of money and the offending item.

Placed on Manhattan

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'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are'
Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person

[sasapinjic]

I fired CDs at the destroyer while it was trying to run away from the battleship outside Manhattan. That's fine, that's not an attack nor a sanctionable offence.

This is where you mistaking about 3 things .
1. Firing CD on ship that is already under fire of NPC base/POB/NPC Battleship/Player battleship IS attack , because your actions directly change situation , player you CD cant flee because of your actions and are damaged ( or killed ) because of your actions , therefore CD in situation like that IS attack .
2. To make matters worse , you also breach your ID limitations by firing CD without RP cause and without letting your opponent know you are under contract .
3. And third , you attack without RP to , one message "Interesting" before engaging is NOT attack declaration .

Thats what i tried to explain you in PM , but you refused to hear my point , i hope you learn something , and see you in game .

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Spoiler

welcome to Loberty
^ where you can get Freelancer ISO , in emergency

These two spoilers were too big so now they're both one ~Champ

[Misfit]

I fired CDs at the destroyer while it was trying to run away from the battleship outside Manhattan. That's fine, that's not an attack nor a sanctionable offence.

This is where you mistaking about 3 things .
1. Firing CD on ship that is already under fire of NPC base/POB/NPC Battleship/Player battleship IS attack , because your actions directly change situation , player you CD cant flee because of your actions and are damaged ( or killed ) because of your actions , therefore CD in situation like that IS attack .
2. To make matters worse , you also breach your ID limitations by firing CD without RP cause and without letting your opponent know you are under contract .
3. And third , you attack without RP to , one message "Interesting" before engaging is NOT attack declaration .

Thats what i tried to explain you in PM , but you refused to hear my point , i hope you learn something , and see you in game .

1. Nowhere in the rules is this regarded as an attack, and I'm yet to find another sanction where a single CD has constituted an attack leading to a rule break. I can understand how it can be interpreted as an intent to attack, but the action itself is not. You were not under fire from anything at this point except the distant Long Island, which wasn't hitting you, just firing in your direction. You were waiting for lawfuls to show up and attack you for a fight.

2. I did not breach my ID by attacking you. I did not attack you, I fired a couple of CDs. I understand that I should have done more roleplay in local chat to show that the battleship and I work together and that I was doing what I was doing because I knew I'd be paid.

3. I didn't attack. No attack declaration necessary. I'm not going to write out five lines of roleplay at someone every time I want to CD them for whatever reason. Nobody is, that's absolutely absurd.

You died because I kept you pinned for the battleship. You weren't aware I was working for the battleship, that's why I'm here having lost money. I have accepted the sanction and I've been punished over this. You don't need to come in here and cry at me about how you were engaged without roleplay and that I broke rules.