So as an Outcast player I've noticed that lately the "let's make a player faction that opposes what the NPC faction stands for, but still use their ID for the tech" has become very very popular as of late. And all these people have kept telling me or publicly that it's ok and that there is no problem shooting your own ID. Is that really so nowadays? I clearly remember people like the LR- and such being slapped for shooting their own indies that disobeyed. They've also been slapped for shooting allies that disobeyed. Now these "let's make faction that opposes the official npc lore" are obviously supposed to be an enemy and shot, but every time I interact with them I have this subtle fear that they might end up revenge sanctioning me just because they can.
So to tl;dr:
What exactly is the current rule standing about shooting your own faction ID or allied faction IDs? Is this allowed, do you need GM permission, do anyone wanting to oppose the NPC faction need to be FR5'd first?
I can tell you that the FR5 on Maltese Exiles limits it to shooting NC- tagged vessels except transports. That's the FR5 rule. It does not permit me to freely shoot any OC over the FR5.
Groups that have been subject to the use of FR5 by another faction, may treat this faction as hostile targets, except for transports, within their Zone of Influence. --- I asked Admins back then, they explictly stated me that "this faction" means NC- only
Apparently it seems to be okay nowadays as I never saw MOA or other factions get sanctions over it, I suggest that's due to the ID lines:
Pilot carrying this unlawful ID is a member of the Outcasts, who:
- Can attack any ships within their Zone of Influence, except transports.
- Can demand cargo and credits from any ship within their Zone of Influence, and attack them if they do not comply.
And no rule stating that shooting same IDed vessels is strictly forbidden unless it is a FR2 or FR5 cse.
(06-02-2019, 02:07 PM)Backo Wrote: So as an Outcast player I've noticed that lately the "let's make a player faction that opposes what the NPC faction stands for, but still use their ID for the tech" has become very very popular as of late. And all these people have kept telling me or publicly that it's ok and that there is no problem shooting your own ID. Is that really so nowadays? I clearly remember people like the LR- and such being slapped for shooting their own indies that disobeyed. They've also been slapped for shooting allies that disobeyed. Now these "let's make faction that opposes the official npc lore" are obviously supposed to be an enemy and shot, but every time I interact with them I have this subtle fear that they might end up revenge sanctioning me just because they can.
So to tl;dr:
What exactly is the current rule standing about shooting your own faction ID or allied faction IDs? Is this allowed, do you need GM permission, do anyone wanting to oppose the NPC faction need to be FR5'd first?
Quite a few IDs have can attack anything in your ZOI expect transports. So that includes your same ID I suppose. Its a good check and balance that forces factions to be nice to there indies. As long as theres roleplay behind it dont see why not.
(06-02-2019, 02:17 PM)Reacher Wrote: Quite a few IDs have can attack anything in your ZOI expect transports. So that includes your same ID I suppose.
The Liberty Rogues also had that and they still got sanctioned a couple of years back. Now I don't remember any rules change as that was sort of an unwritten rule back then and it seems to be now. So I really feel like I'm walking on very thin edge if I uphold my roleplay and shoot any dissident factions that use the same ID as me.
Historically shooting people with the same ID has fallen under rule 4.4 (not playing to the ID)
In the past three years or so the staff kind of made exceptions on a whim and the whole thing (for better or worse) became a lot grayer ever since stuff like the Contari Lance/101st war and Harmony.
In general I'd say it is not allowed, but if there are extenuating circumstances we may let it slide as it is a situational thing.
That said I am not a GM/Moderator so take my interpretation of that with a grain of salt.
It is allowed because unlawful factions have ID lines that say "can attack any ship except transports". By server rules, ID rules supersede server rules. So if the ID says any ship, this includes your own faction.
So I can make a Corsair and start shooting other Corsairs on a whim? It does sound like a bit of a loophole to ignore any roleplay and just shoot whoever you want to shoot. Probably would need to get worded in the rules to ensure everyone is aware of it and so different GMs don't vote sanctions differently because of how veteran they are in Discovery and which approach they prefer.
I would note that the ID lines would need clarification in this and not the server rules if you want to ban this. Since, you know, if you write it in the server rules, the ID lines still supersede the server rules.
It has never been allowed outside of admins giving the green light before it happens. Seeing as there is multiple instances of sanctions regarding this behavior, implying otherwise is foolish.
This said, it's not actually in the rules at all. If anything, ID rules allow it as pointed out by Foxglove. Either the rules need to be updated on this, or the unspoken rule needs to be formally put to rest.
(06-02-2019, 02:37 PM)Foxglove Wrote: I would note that the ID lines would need clarification in this and not the server rules if you want to ban this. Since, you know, if you write it in the server rules, the ID lines still supersede the server rules.
Then there have been plenty of sanctions which were in fact wrong and against what the rules state? I guess this is a good enough reason to get a clear statement as the area is very shady and prone to contradicting ruling depending who is processing the sanction and who is involved.
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