It appears that this is a topic that nobody really knows how to handle. Some people think that it is a good idea to shoot people with the same ID as you while others think that it is completly stupid and should not be a thing.
The reason I'm posting this is because recently there has been a warning for people shooting their own ID, while in the past, entire factions have fought each other with the same ID (Examples of the time that I've spent here are Apostatas and even right now the Maltese Republic), and have not been warned or gotten any sanction at all, beside the FR5 that should be the main consequence.
However, it appears that the rules on this are not quite clear ( might just be for me?), seeing as certain ID's allow you to shoot any ship in your Zone of Influence, sometimes with the exception of transports and such. From what I remember, the ingame ID overwrites the rules every time that something is not clearly stated within aforementioned rules. Due to the warning however, I feel like that is not the case and I'm highly interested in what people think about this and what the current GM/Devteam has to say about these cases and how they will be handled in the future, so that people are actually aware of how to handle certain situations in the future.
Seeing as I ask for your opinion, I think it is only fair that I state my own opinion here, as well.
In my eyes, it makes perfect sense for certain factions (mainly Pirate or Unlawful factions such as Outcasts, Corsairs, Rogues etc.) to shoot each other if there is roleplay that justifies it. Shooting anyone with the same ID obviously is a no-go, and should not be allowed, but I personally enjoy hostile interactions with people of the same group/ID, especially if there is more than one representative of a faction. I'm personally guilty of this, having shot Nomads as Nomad before, as well as Corsairs on Corsair ships. It would make less sense (at least in my eyes) if Navy ships would suddenly shoot each other, at least for the same reasons that make perfect sense for Unlawful groups (such as Character X trying to boss around Character Y despite having the same rank etc.)
maybe create a "civilian" ID .. that can do whatever the hell they want. no caps .. no 5k ers ..no restrictions on who they shoot at.. just rp consequence.. ??
As Justin said, however following the same 4.4 gives allowance that ships with the line "may engage any ship in their Zone of Influence, except transports" or similar, overrides this rule and allows for the same interesting scenarios of, example, one Outcast faction fighting another Outcast faction. Pointing to the end of 4.4 where "In all other cases where these restrictions and allowances conflict with the server rules, the ID overrides the rules except as described in 4.5 and 4.6." This gives credence for infighting to occur without rule infractions, but has general been treated on whether the intent is malicious, or complies with previously established history and roleplay.
These kinds of things did happen and were (back in my time, may differ from now) treated case by base on intent and whether or not justification existed if the ID line permitted. It's a really touchy issue since the rule does specifically state ID overrides this rule, but in the same notion that can be used maliciously which would prompt use of 0.0 to protect the health of people playing.
No one can out boop me, not even an Admin! Boop. ~Spuddo GRAVE REPERCUSSIONS ~Ramke Get booped on, nerd. ~Durandal I wanted to be a part of the party, hi Tails. ~Inferno Pokes are superior boops. ~Naz Get patted, dork. ~Peti
I guess we'll hold a high level staff meeting and get back on it. As far as I'm aware it was primarily Alley/Skorak who moved things away from the historical ID doesn't shoot itself shtick, and that's largely the status quo that I'd like to return to. I recognize that this is a personal opinion and we'll convene to decide what's best for Discovery as a whole.
(11-25-2019, 11:42 AM)Lucas Wrote: In my eyes, it makes perfect sense for certain factions (mainly Pirate or Unlawful factions such as Outcasts, Corsairs, Rogues etc.) to shoot each other if there is roleplay that justifies it. Shooting anyone with the same ID obviously is a no-go, and should not be allowed, but I personally enjoy hostile interactions with people of the same group/ID, especially if there is more than one representative of a faction. I'm personally guilty of this, having shot Nomads as Nomad before, as well as Corsairs on Corsair ships. It would make less sense (at least in my eyes) if Navy ships would suddenly shoot each other, at least for the same reasons that make perfect sense for Unlawful groups (such as Character X trying to boss around Character Y despite having the same rank etc.)
Pretty much my view on this. I might be biased because I lead one of the factions that is bringing up this thread, but this is pretty much the same logic that went into the thought for the gameplay aspect of the faction.
Restricting this freedom is only preventing possible controversy that could fuel further RP lines, imo.
(11-25-2019, 08:41 PM)Durandal Wrote: I guess we'll hold a high level staff meeting and get back on it. As far as I'm aware it was primarily Alley/Skorak who moved things away from the historical ID doesn't shoot itself shtick, and that's largely the status quo that I'd like to return to. I recognize that this is a personal opinion and we'll convene to decide what's best for Discovery as a whole.
This is correct if it carries the appropriate RP. I mean, you can attack an allied ship.
Another thing is under what circumstances this happens. For example, the Administration will take measures against those who did not explain the reasons and started shooting. This is logical.
This is the whole answer to your question. On the other hand, I would put it under the control of the players, without affecting the Administration. Here the RP plays the role, such as an attack for no reason is a violation of this RP itself.
It still requires a formal declaration of what is appropriate, or you Will have abusers who Report for getting blown away after they have provoked an incident.
Some years ago, there was a discussion about what you can do if someone flies into your RP with an opposed faction, does an absolute minimum to CYA, then kills your RP-mate. The end result of that thread was, sucks to be you.
If the rules do not reflect what this thread desires, then the jerk in the above scenario would be 100% within their rights to Report for getting blown up "by their own side" in spite of just having Obviously not played "on their own side's" interests.
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