Demands to POBs (Rule Poll)

[Skyelius]

Hello folks,

With the Summer 2020 increases in activity, present POB drama, and forecasted continuing POB drama, there are actions we should take to try and be fair with as much players as we can.

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Main methods of controlling gameplay quality:

• Mod-based Control
  
• Server-based Control (e.g., FLHook)
  
• Rule-based Control
  

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The below discussion is of type: [*]Rule-based Control

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4.2 Demands should be reasonable and only one monetary or cargo demand can be issued during each piracy interaction. Telling the Trader to halt/stop is not a demand, however, if the Trader chooses to ignore the request, then they can be shot down without the need for any further demands. Upon compliance with the demand, the demanding party must not interfere any further during the same interaction, unless provoked.

-Issue: The "Reasonable Demands Rule" which is a common general rule of fair play in many games, does not specifically apply to demands for POBs.
-Rules: POB-Specific Rules
-Example: DEMAND TO POB LOL

So if there is a Fair Demands Rule that protects Player Ships (small credit risk) from unfair demands, why is there not a Fair Demands Rule that protects Player Bases (large credit risk)?

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Some bases are owned by individuals, some bases are owned by factions; some bases are staging grounds; some bases are commodity centers. There are many points that can be used to qualify bases and decide what a fair demand is. Poll is up.

Regards

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"It is a cold universe until you know God as your Father, and then it becomes a home. Even the next life simply becomes the Father's house, home."
—David Pawson

[Haste]

I mean, sure, there could be a rule that things have to be kept reasonable. At the same time, I suspect that "reasonable" demands, when it comes to structures that can hold billions and billions of credits in commodities and equipment and also cost huge amounts to build (particularly if you value your time), could still be pretty significant sums.

Almost everyone would consider a billion credits a month excessive even for a PoB. A one-time payment of a billion credits to protect your high-core-level PoB could be described as perfectly reasonable, though, if the PoB is capable of making many times more credits over its lifetime.

Are there any good examples of excessive demands that you have seen?

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[Mephistoles]

I would imagine any wacky, unreasonable demands like that one for a few billion credits to not siege a base a while ago, would see admin intervention in order to protect the wellbeing of the server.

I'm sure we have a common-sense approach in place and player bases effectively are protected from unreasonable demands by using our judgement.

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Sigma & GMG Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/d4j3W4v

[Venkman]

I'm sure we have a common-sense approach in place and player bases effectively are protected from unreasonable demands by using our judgement.

Exactly, just use common sense, simple as that.

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[Wesker]

You're making this under the impression that unlawfuls and lawfuls have to demand anything.

: )

Venkman is being nicer than I was.

[Thyrzul]

Reasonable demands are defined in relation to how much profit in credits a tradeship can generate over time, a bit more for bigger transports and ore than for smaller ships and regular commodities, but the overall mathematics behind the situation is relatively simple.

How would you calculate profit for a lot more complex system, such as a PoB?

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[kerfy]

This just attacking POB's because players dont want them in the game is an issue..no ? seems kinda not right .. Kills gameplay .. does mine for certain.. i fly transports.. they kill my base and I have nothing to do so why even play .. rob me all the time.. thats fine, kill my base and there is nobody to rob, and no rp.. just my own personal thoughts..

[Skyelius]

I mean, sure, there could be a rule that things have to be kept reasonable. At the same time, I suspect that "reasonable" demands, when it comes to structures that can hold billions and billions of credits in commodities and equipment and also cost huge amounts to build (particularly if you value your time), could still be pretty significant sums.

Almost everyone would consider a billion credits a month excessive even for a PoB. A one-time payment of a billion credits to protect your high-core-level PoB could be described as perfectly reasonable, though, if the PoB is capable of making many times more credits over its lifetime.

Are there any good examples of excessive demands that you have seen?

Hello Haste,

I do not own a POB - I'd have to sit down and crunch some numbers to help create a guideline, if any needs to be done. The one Mephistoles mentioned is obvious, but I bet lesser demands can be unreasonable in many cases.

You're making this under the impression that unlawfuls and lawfuls have to demand anything.

: )

Venkman is being nicer than I was.

Yo buddy - yeah maybe... I'm just pointing out the absence of a rule, formally. The post I saw was funny.

I may be willing to play in a wild Freelancer Kill-On-Sight allowed server, but not everyone, right? 99.9999% of FL KoS servers have died anyway...

Would I be fine with having the "attack rules" in general be removed? Maybe.

Are bases worth more than ships and lacking a Reasonable Demands rule? Yes.

Should there be a rule applicable to them? Maybe... I think so.

Reasonable demands are defined in relation to how much profit in credits a tradeship can generate over time, a bit more for bigger transports and ore than for smaller ships and regular commodities, but the overall mathematics behind the situation is relatively simple.

How would you calculate profit for a lot more complex system, such as a PoB?

Hey Thyrzul,

That's a fair question, though... this thread deals with the absence of a rule, not the quantification of demands; seeing that piracy fairness rules is open to player judgement as Mep commented, and I personally think that would be enough.

I didn't want to restrict the topic to specifics. I do think that Base Core tiers & locations could potentially be used to measure that; it's very inconvenient to do so - but perhaps the largest factors in the equation (Core, Location, Ownership) should be the guideline drivers.

There's just no apparent coverage for POBs, which are obviously a greater credit risk; I can't imagine anyone that would choose to get blown up in a ship versus getting their base blown up - but trolls come in all shapes, sizes, and colors.

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"It is a cold universe until you know God as your Father, and then it becomes a home. Even the next life simply becomes the Father's house, home."
—David Pawson

[Groshyr]

There was a thread for such proposals. Please, post there.

[Skyelius]

There was a thread for such proposals. Please, post there.

Hello Mr. Bearded Princess,

It's responsible to first poll the rest of the community before proposing something that would draw more fire than action.

There's nothing wrong, and quite a lot to gain, from polling before proposing.

Thanks.

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"It is a cold universe until you know God as your Father, and then it becomes a home. Even the next life simply becomes the Father's house, home."
—David Pawson