Right, my friends, i know this topic has been discussed to bloody hell, but there are a few things i gathered and wished to re-discuss from a different point of view.
We all know what happened to Bs| with their attempt with this problem, but there are a few things, which make sense, yet there are a few which don't.
First then, i understand factions have no right to restrict people of their rp rights and all, but what about those, who use these ships and truly abuse it. Then they are harming server gameplay and ruining other people's fun, aren't they. Admins usually sit near 'hattan sometimes and prod them. But it isn't their job, since they do not participate in server rp via admin taged characters.
I shall take the example of two factions i know the most right now, the outcasts and liberty rogues. Outcast destroyers are piloted by many good rpers but there are those who lol around. They don't brake the rules, ID is fine, no oorp chats in system, its all understandable. But when you get added to this group it becomes clear why do they have these ships.
"lol i mortaired a liberator today in NY:D, killed seven fighters and a gunboat, nublets i pwn"
Basically this is the kind of actions we don't want. They give the engagement noticed, probably /setmessage'd and kill away. Admins cannot do anything about it, since they aren't braking rules. But those they whore are not amused and simply do not enjoy rping in fear to be capraped.
The outcasts rp made a very nice development, the NY directive. Means no outcast warship above a bunboat is to be there, since, in rp they should be fighting the corsairs, not stomping over some house space, which is of no interest to them from a millitary point of view.
Let's move on to the Rogues. Rogue dessies are the latest additon to the mod and it's gorgeous, but it's used by mollies (in Rp) in their own war. Rogues are poor pirates and opportunitists, in rp. But in game, i see at least one dessie per day going around killing lawfuls. Being a rogue person i am disgusted by this. "we are killing navy! its in rp! take that, lvl 31 patriot!"
*shakes head*
In rp, rogues should take that ship and drag the admiral by the hair for "stirring up the hive" as it means, next time the navy would increse patrols (in rp) and cardi smuggling would be even more problematic.
This brings me to the conclusion. Factions should not have control over independent player's rp. There IS a reason they chose to be indie afterall. Now stay with me here: there is an in rp way to preven pvp abuse, which cannot be simply solved, as the people who abuse their ships aren't braking rules. But as i stated above, there are ways to at least limit this.
There are cap registration topics in the rp hub for a reason. It shows that you are a resonable man and are willing to take participation in rp.
"//no, u cant make me rp registration i not in ur faction"
Sorry, but if you cant spend 5min to do what you came here to do, that is RP, make an rp post of your ship (unless you just came here to shoot everyone) then i must say why did you bother to rp anyway.
Why can't you make a rp post, if youre here to rp anyway?
So that is basically my two cents on this subject. Players rarely think about the person behind the keyboard, whose light fighter you just killed, is not amused. *shrug* and it's not only the indies ofcourse, but in factions, you have your faction members to hit you with a stick if you mess up.
And on the finale note:
I can name over twenty independent capital ships, who are awesome at Rp, a few of them being LNS, Zapp's Tundra and others.
Just that admins should leave some jurisdiction over small "threats" like this to the factions, i had LN pm my LR with // asking if i could please order that dessie to leave WP. I can try to talk to the dessie, but if they refuse, what then. Attack? No, that's sanctionable, all i can do is watch how he pisses other indies and faction members off by attacking and "geting rid of" any lawful in NY above 30.
' Wrote:There are cap registration topics in the rp hub for a reason. It shows that you are a resonable man and are willing to take participation in rp.
"//no, u cant make me rp registration i not in ur faction"
Sorry, but if you cant spend 5min to do what you came here to do, that is RP, make an rp post of your ship (unless you just came here to shoot everyone) then i must say why did you bother to rp anyway.
Why can't you make a rp post, if youre here to rp anyway?
I can name over twenty independent capital ships, who are awesome at Rp, a few of them being LNS, Zapp's Tundra and others.
I have to register or you are going to consider me a person who did not come here for the RP? Right.
Well, i am just surprised at some of the answers i got, that people who, as they say, are there to rp (and they said it while shooting some kith somtaaw fighter guy) but cannot do so much as a simply rp post. Shows either that they rp only when needed and if needed or that they arent interested or arent respecting older rps of other people.
Being "indie" doesen't mean you do not effect other's rps and vise versa.
Right, my friends, i know this topic has been discussed to bloody hell, but there are a few things i gathered and wished to re-discuss from a different point of view.
We all know what happened to Bs| with their attempt with this problem, but there are a few things, which make sense, yet there are a few which don't.
First then, i understand factions have no right to restrict people of their rp rights and all, but what about those, who use these ships and truly abuse it. Then they are harming server gameplay and ruining other people's fun, aren't they. Admins usually sit near 'hattan sometimes and prod them. But it isn't their job, since they do not participate in server rp via admin taged characters.
I shall take the example of two factions i know the most right now, the outcasts and liberty rogues. Outcast destroyers are piloted by many good rpers but there are those who lol around. They don't brake the rules, ID is fine, no oorp chats in system, its all understandable. But when you get added to this group it becomes clear why do they have these ships.
"lol i mortaired a liberator today in NY:D, killed seven fighters and a gunboat, nublets i pwn"
Basically this is the kind of actions we don't want. They give the engagement noticed, probably /setmessage'd and kill away. Admins cannot do anything about it, since they aren't braking rules. But those they whore are not amused and simply do not enjoy rping in fear to be capraped.
The outcasts rp made a very nice development, the NY directive. Means no outcast warship above a bunboat is to be there, since, in rp they should be fighting the corsairs, not stomping over some house space, which is of no interest to them from a millitary point of view.
Let's move on to the Rogues. Rogue dessies are the latest additon to the mod and it's gorgeous, but it's used by mollies (in Rp) in their own war. Rogues are poor pirates and opportunitists, in rp. But in game, i see at least one dessie per day going around killing lawfuls. Being a rogue person i am disgusted by this. "we are killing navy! its in rp! take that, lvl 31 patriot!"
*shakes head*
In rp, rogues should take that ship and drag the admiral by the hair for "stirring up the hive" as it means, next time the navy would increse patrols (in rp) and cardi smuggling would be even more problematic.
This brings me to the conclusion. Factions should not have control over independent player's rp. There IS a reason they chose to be indie afterall. Now stay with me here: there is an in rp way to preven pvp abuse, which cannot be simply solved, as the people who abuse their ships aren't braking rules. But as i stated above, there are ways to at least limit this.
There are cap registration topics in the rp hub for a reason. It shows that you are a resonable man and are willing to take participation in rp.
"//no, u cant make me rp registration i not in ur faction"
Sorry, but if you cant spend 5min to do what you came here to do, that is RP, make an rp post of your ship (unless you just came here to shoot everyone) then i must say why did you bother to rp anyway.
Why can't you make a rp post, if youre here to rp anyway?
So that is basically my two cents on this subject. Players rarely think about the person behind the keyboard, whose light fighter you just killed, is not amused. *shrug* and it's not only the indies ofcourse, but in factions, you have your faction members to hit you with a stick if you mess up.
And on the finale note:
I can name over twenty independent capital ships, who are awesome at Rp, a few of them being LNS, Zapp's Tundra and others.
Just that admins should leave some jurisdiction over small "threats" like this to the factions, i had LN pm my LR with // asking if i could please order that dessie to leave WP. I can try to talk to the dessie, but if they refuse, what then. Attack? No, that's sanctionable, all i can do is watch how he pisses other indies and faction members off by attacking and "geting rid of" any lawful in NY above 30.
My 0.01
I will agree with you on those points right there.
I've actually been trying to say some of them for ages, but I can't seem to relay the message well, and sometimes I sadly get misunderstood.
And frankly, n00bl3t, why make it a fight of wills like this? I mean, why must you defy some things out of principle, though it's sometimes a good thing as you raise awareness of some people taking complaints and "problem solving" too far, if they're not really hard for you to do?
I mean, I friggin' know that you can come up with a short RP post in the length of a couple of lines in less than 5 minutes. So why not do so?
Why should the many indies that RP not be a role-model for the newer players?
Same as some factions serve as a role-model to certain groups, same thing can be applied here.
I just get disappointed whenever I see people fighting against things that'd actually help the server as a whole. And it doesn't hurt you one single bit.
If you can spend dozens and hundreds of hours on chars, you sure can take 5 minutes of your time to register in a thread. Just post something, anything.
And anyways, the whole problem lies just there, as Sindroms said, with people that RP in system chat juuuuust enough to avoid a sanction, but generally act like amazing douchebags on a daily basis, not taking anyone else into consideration.
I for example one day sit somewhere in space with one of my chars, doesn't matter which kind, and I get some random cruiser, dessie, or battleship who throws in a little engagement notice and then proceeds to kill me before I can utter a single word of RP.
And when that happens, I am thrown out of that system and char for four hours, and I got nothing in return.
I don't really mind losing that much, believe me or not, but I hate losing when I've not even been given the chance to start playing.
[/unconnected mumblings]
<span style="font-familyalatino Linotype">
<span style="color:#000000">All morons hate it when you call them a moron.
My qualm with registrations is that you can register and still be a "lolwutting capwhore". Being able to type a paragraph of RP on a forum post doesn't necessarily make you a better player. Case in point - the Order. Some of the "good ones" break rules and have poor RP, like "Leave minor now" as they fire two missiles towards a bomber.
Also, registration has nothing to do with killing light fighters. If I buy a Red Hessian Cruiser and don't notify the RHA, then it doesn't mean I'm going to go around hunting Phantoms with it. It just means I didn't want / feel the need to register (hypothetical, in practice I would simply as I'm in the faction).
Also, people may have issues that there are no fighter registrations - there are only ones to register capital ships. The reason why "capwhoring" is a "major problem" is because the majority of players here fly fighters and bombers. To them, a lolwutting fighter indie is nothing but free bots and bats. A capital ship on the other hand, requires effort to kill. I prefer being attacked by a capital ship indie with no engagement notice than a "good RP" fighter/bomber with a set msg engagement. At least I can escape the capital ship.
' Wrote:My qualm with registrations is that you can register and still be a "lolwutting capwhore". Being able to type a paragraph of RP on a forum post doesn't necessarily make you a better player. Case in point - the Order. Some of the "good ones" break rules and have poor RP, like "Leave minor now" as they fire two missiles towards a bomber.
Yes, this is true. A capital registration is not a fix-it-all spell. But it at least provides the ability to connect a forum account with an ingame character. At least you have someone to contact and talk to about it. Increase the communication between people a bit.
It could be a first step towards something.
' Wrote:Also, registration has nothing to do with killing light fighters. If I buy a Red Hessian Cruiser and don't notify the RHA, then it doesn't mean I'm going to go around hunting Phantoms with it. It just means I didn't want / feel the need to register (hypothetical, in practice I would simply as I'm in the faction).
As I said, refer to what I said above. It at least provides the possibility of contacting the person who flies something.
But if you really want my humble opinion, I think the rule about 'any activities that damage server gameplay' should be treated as kind of a rule against idiocy.
' Wrote:Also, people may have issues that there are no fighter issues. The reason why "capwhoring" is a "major problem" is because the majority of players here fly fighters and bombers. To them, a lolwutting fighter indie is nothing but free bots and bats. A capital ship on the other hand, requires effort to kill. I prefer being attacked by a capital ship indie with no engagement notice than a "good RP" fighter/bomber with a set msg engagement. At least I can escape the capital ship.
If you re-read the posts in the thread, you'll notice that it adresses the issue of people who RP just enough not to get sanctioned, but damage the fun of the whole server and have absolutely no desire to RP one bit, and are motivated solely by mindless rampages with their ships.
And this has little to do with sides such as 'the ones that fly this' and the 'ones that fly that'. Don't make it a conflict of small craft vs. big craft.
<span style="font-familyalatino Linotype">
<span style="color:#000000">All morons hate it when you call them a moron.
There is no need to urge people to registrations in my opinion. Reason is simple. Keeping a track of it will get immensely hard at one point in major houses such as Liberty and others. Actually what I tell here should be viable and sufficient for all groups trying to concentrate on dealing with undesired actions, the independents cause. Blaming the independents as a whole won't remedy anything but irritate the fuss worse at the first place.
In short, what I would suggest is to coordinate your factions on which actions to take against undesired situations once they occur. Warn your own folk how to act when such a case occurs. Have an operation manual and distribute it on secure channels. Also let your actions be known on forums so that people could or at least try to be acquainted with them in time. Use the tools of roleplay and do what a reasonable officer, leader or whatever would do. Be sensitive and objective at this point. Is a capital ship creating trouble or anything undesired for the dominant lawful faction in their ZOI? Deal it within RP then, board the vessel or force it out of the system. Levy it a fine, dismantle it to scrap metal as a last resort if the person in question is reluctant to participate in what the reasonable roleplay actions would require to do.
Remember, they can't whine or validate their arguments with which they attempt to accuse you as long as you are reasonable in your acts of roleplay.
Registrations do allow you to know who flies what, yep. That's good, as it increases communication between the factions and the indies, which allows more team work to occur. I agree with you there.
If the indie really doesn't want to be contacted over his rulebreaking/whatever, then make a violation report. The admins can find who owns that, and if he's not on the forums, then he'll probably make a forum account to find out why he was sanctioned.
Edit: this is a conflict between "big ships and small ships", because this is a topic about independent capital ships being pvp-minded. Pvp whores can be in any type of ship they want, yet the only ones singled out here are capital ships.
Now the question is: where does idiocy start and where does it end?
Sure some Dessi camping WP might be a clear case but there are many opportunetys that are in some sort of "gray zone".
This might lead to injustice as some one might rp well but some other guy just dislikes it or did not get to see the big picture, so he claims its poor rp and of goes the ffa.
I have some experiances on other rp communetys, and one thing i learned is, that you cant beat poor rp with rules, it does not work.
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