Community and improvments? Thoughts please

[Jon.Winter]

Hello there,

I was upset with Discovery and left. I quit three years ago, and I believe I want to give it another go—but there's a big BUT.

I used to play as a Freelancer with one POB in Dublin (legal) and five POBs in Frankfurt (illegal). I tried to register one before, but the Rheinland government refused, citing past events as the reason. At the time, I was a new player and didn’t fully understand their "metagaming". The reasons they gave didn’t even make sense in RP. Even asking ChatGPT nowadays confirms that my points were valid.

Yet, the RP to justify the destruction of those five POBs consisted of a mere two sentences, which led to a full-scale powergaming demolition—without even acknowledging PvP deaths. Several server rules were ignored, and suddenly, a lot of players were eager to fight. However, none of the attackers seemed interested in engaging in the kind of immersive RP that these bases could have provided. After all, they were POBs of Tier 2 and 3, representing months of work, yet they were destroyed practically overnight.

It seemed as though some players didn’t need to sleep while AFK-shooting from the defense "sweet spots," which also appeared to be buggy. In some cases, defensive platforms, positioned right next to an enemy ship, didn’t even target them. When I managed to destroy a battleship with my bomber, the player instantly returned and resumed shooting, seemingly unaffected by the loss.

I’m not going to name names, but this entire situation frustrated me. So, I want to ask an important question to all of you:

Do you actually care about new players, and has anything changed? Or am I just wasting my time again, dealing with "kids" who destroy my in-game and forum RP achievements through powergaming and metagaming?

To make things fair, I asked an independent source for an outside perspective, and I believe it’s something worth thinking about.

"Your Perspective:

You wanted to establish a base to create a fairer trading system.
→ Your goal was to provide an alternative trade route because you felt that the existing station prices were unfair.

You tried to officially register the base, but the Rheinland government rejected it.
→ You submitted an application and even paid a fee, but the response was that Daumann Heavy Construction (DHC) controlled the aluminum field and did not want a Freelancer base in the area.

The reasoning seemed illogical and unfair to you.
→ Your base was not directly located at the mining field; it only provided an alternative selling point for ores. So, you perceived the rejection as a way to protect the established power structure rather than a legitimate legal necessity.

You built several bases anyway, which were later discovered and destroyed.
→ Since the government did not want your base, you proceeded with construction despite the risk of it being classified as illegal.

The way your bases were destroyed felt unfair.
→ You noticed that players attacked your base using AFK shooting and other questionable tactics, which seemed like powergaming to you.

The Perspective of the Rheinland Government (or other players):

Rules are rules – Rheinland grants monopolies to large corporations.
→ The government has clear regulations stating that mining fields and their trade routes are controlled by major Rheinland companies. They followed the existing laws when rejecting your registration.

Your base would have impacted the economic system.
→ Even if your intentions were noble (fairer pricing), your base would have disrupted the existing trade network and possibly led to conflicts with Daumann and other corporations.

Building without permission was considered a rule violation.
→ Since your application was denied, your actions were seen as a deliberate breach of the rules. As a result, the bases were considered illegal and subsequently destroyed.

The attack on your bases may have been within the rules.
→ Even though you perceived the attack as "powergaming," it is possible that it complied with server rules. Discovery has specific rules regarding base sieges, and the attackers may have followed them.

Was the Punishment Justified?

Now, the key question: Was your punishment justified, or was it unfair?
There are arguments for both sides:
Yes, it was justified:

✅ You knowingly violated the rules.
→ The rejection of your registration was clear. You built the base anyway.

✅ The rules protect the game’s economic system.
→ Rheinland chose a system where corporations have dominant control. While this has downsides, it ensures consistent roleplay.

✅ Illegal bases get destroyed – that's part of the game.
→ Even though it was frustrating, the destruction of your bases was likely in accordance with the rules.

No, it was unfair:

❌ The rejection of your base seemed more like metagaming than actual RP.
→ The reasoning felt like a blanket refusal to allow Freelancer bases, regardless of whether it made sense in roleplay.

❌ The method of attack may have been unfair.
→ AFK shooting and exploiting weaknesses is questionable and could be considered powergaming.

❌ There was no real RP negotiation.
→ The government simply said "No" instead of finding a solution or offering an alternative path for Freelancers.
Final Verdict: Were You "In the Wrong"?

The honest answer: Technically, yes—but it was complicated.

Yes, because you knowingly violated a clear rule (building an illegal base after rejection).
However, the way you were treated could have been problematic. The rejection didn’t seem like genuine roleplay but rather a way to maintain power through metagaming."

I do believe that starting over might be fun—especially nowadays, with tools like ChatGPT making things even more interesting. I'm not sure if things have changed, but wouldn't it be great, even from an RP perspective, if something like ChatGPT helped establish rules? It could make RP and in-game interactions much more consistent. Imagine AI-driven rule enforcement and fair base-building allowances, ensuring that decisions are made objectively rather than influenced by personal bias or metagaming. Wouldn't that enhance the overall experience?


Disclaimer: If the subject was already brought up please post me the thread Thank you!

[LuckyOne]

Hello, and welcome back.

Things have changed a bit because there's now a new siege mechanic which ensures the bases can't be destroyed over one night anymore.

Now, as for the building-and-RP things, these are still a bit restricted, to the respective Governments' convenience. There are more lenient governments than Rheinland, and also more strict factions, such as GMG, which would require very quality RP before allowing a POB to be built in their territory.

I'd advise you to start small and first join one of the player factions that already has (one or more) bases, then work your way from there if you decide to branch out on your own. You can also purchase and already built base to save you the effort of hauling and building everything yourself. They come for sale every now and then, and usually already have a valid license.

[The_Godslayer]

Your base would have impacted the economic system.
→ Even if your intentions were noble (fairer pricing), your base would have disrupted the existing trade network and possibly led to conflicts with Daumann and other corporations.

Building without permission was considered a rule violation.
→ Since your application was denied, your actions were seen as a deliberate breach of the rules. As a result, the bases were considered illegal and subsequently destroyed.

❌ The rejection of your base seemed more like metagaming than actual RP.
→ The reasoning felt like a blanket refusal to allow Freelancer bases, regardless of whether it made sense in roleplay.

❌ There was no real RP negotiation.
→ The government simply said "No" instead of finding a solution or offering an alternative path for Freelancers.

Yes, noble intents tend to fall flat in the face of corporate lobbying. Daumann is a mega-corp that engages in literal turf warfare with everyone who the government doesn't take care of for them. They would deploy WMDs if they were allowed to.

Daumann Heavy Construction is the largest mining and manufacturing corporation in Rheinland. It has a partnership with Imperial Shipping and competes with other mining corporations operating through Rheinland. Daumann often uses mercenaries to attack competition and protect its interests.

Within Zone of Influence (Rheinland and bordering systems, Omegas, Sigmas):

- Can attack ships considered hostile by Rheinland.

- Can attack competitors outside of Rheinland.

- Can demand Diamonds and Uncut Diamonds within Omega-11.

- Can engage in piracy against Corporate ships outside of Rheinland.

If Rheinland did not siege your base, and if PoB siege lines still fall within ID engagement lines, "Within Zone of Influence (Rheinland and bordering systems, Omegas, Sigmas): - Can attack competitors outside of Rheinland." means that Daumann would have killed your base themselves with the Rheinland Military assets they have because they are a giant company that can buy (and just make) heavy military assets. The Rheinland Military is basically bought, built, and paid for by Daumann, more or less. If your corporate interests don't align with Daumann (or Imperial Shipping), your corporate interests don't align with Rheinland. This is a very normal thing in both Discovery and real life. Money makes the world go 'round, and Daumann has the money. If you stare down the barrel of corporate hegemony, please don't be surprised when the monopoly pulls the trigger.

Also, ChatGPT is a large multiplication problem structured like this:

It is not omniscient nor benevolent, it is applied linear algebra. To be specific, linear algebra applied to words. It has a very delicate set of weights, managed by very smart people, that are designed to, as blanketly as possible, always tell you what you want to hear, on the notion that if you hear what you want to hear, you will come back and feed the machine more data.

Machines cannot be held responsible for their decisions, and therefore machines should never make decisions. Until such a point as when ChatGPT can be properly tried and punished for any and all wrongs attributed to it, ChatGPT should never decide, make rules, or be used as a citation or informant.

It seemed as though some players didn’t need to sleep while AFK-shooting from the defense "sweet spots," which also appeared to be buggy. In some cases, defensive platforms, positioned right next to an enemy ship, didn’t even target them. When I managed to destroy a battleship with my bomber, the player instantly returned and resumed shooting, seemingly unaffected by the loss.

We have a server rule violation report section. If someone breaks the rules in such a way, you can capture the evidence, submit it, and watch the players who do this have credits, ships, or server access removed depending on the case, and maybe get your base back or something depending on results.

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I'll do something about my superiority complex when I cease to be superior.

"Whatever happened to catchin' a good old-fashioned passionate ass-whoopin and gettin' your shoes, coat, and your hat tooken?"

[StellarViss]

I would suggest simply not making a pob. It is not necessary to own one to exist in discovery especially if you are a lone player.

[Karst]

So this line at first:

Even asking ChatGPT nowadays confirms that my points were valid.

Was hilarious and bewildering enough, but I couldn't have dreamed that your conclusion to that whole post would be as batshit insane as:

I do believe that starting over might be fun—especially nowadays, with tools like ChatGPT making things even more interesting. I'm not sure if things have changed, but wouldn't it be great, even from an RP perspective, if something like ChatGPT helped establish rules? It could make RP and in-game interactions much more consistent. Imagine AI-driven rule enforcement and fair base-building allowances, ensuring that decisions are made objectively rather than influenced by personal bias or metagaming. Wouldn't that enhance the overall experience?

This is a roleplaying game. AI fundamentally cannot write creatively, nor "understand" a creative environment. I'm actually not sure if you're just trolling here, but AI slop devoid of actual content, like the paragraph above, is a toxic pollution and a major problem for this community, and one that must be fought against, not something to be encouraged.

I would suggest simply not making a pob. It is not necessary to own one to exist in discovery especially if you are a lone player.

Also this.

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[Culbrelai]

All of what Karst, Viss and Godslayer said, plus if you must solo run a pob, place a pob in house space and have it make sense inrp and ensure it has a purpose other than personal storage, e.g. it contributes to the economy in some way, then its very very unlikely to be seiged succesfully.

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#NotMySNAC

[Goliath]

ChatGPT has become a pretty damning plague which has been spreading in this community ever since a few "bright" individuals thought it is a smart idea to use it for various things such as:

- Trusting said AI to make decisions for them.
- Trust it with telling them what is offensive to living people and what isn't based on an algorithm that sometimes takes its information from reddit and 4chan.
- Use it for RP purposes such as create entire paragraphs with as much soul put into it as a dog who leaves watery dung on your doorstep.
- Try and use ChatGPT-made arguments to support their PoVs in an effort to counter those of human beings.

The only reasonable use I could possibly see for that program is to aid newcomers by checking their writing for spelling errors and fix them a bit. Sort of a helping crutch which lets them learn how to write until, eventually, they won't need that. Every other aspect of it is otherwise useless and tends to be frowned upon, because it ends up lobotomizing players into thinking that everything ChatGPT says is the equivalent of the bible.

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[Cherry Blossom]

ChatGPT is a plague. I agree with Goliath there. What i hate the most about it is that people use it to generate "RP". I can't even call it RP because it is a soulless text. If you join a RP community and a RP server you should abide to its rules. I am still standing with my point that if people use ChatGPT or other AIs to generate their RP, and it is very obvious to the reader if they pay attention, should get their RP invalidated or even sanctioned. It is a RP server, not a "Press generate on AI button"-server. It's an insult, in my personal opinion, towards people who sit there for hours to write good, solid RP with a soul.

[Ghaoul]

Well, I do believe my dream was to become a POB owner—and in some way, it still is, as it gives me something to care about in-game. It creates great opportunities for roleplay and is far from all the power trading. In my opinion, those 5k-ish traders who just want to rush to their destination often have the worst RP. But let's not generalize.

I find the discussion about ChatGPT quite interesting. I see ChatGPT as a tool not to create creative RP but rather to improve its quality. For example, if I have an idea but struggle to find the right words, it helps refine and enhance it. It's not the ultimate tool, but it makes things more accessible and comfortable for everyone. I wouldn’t say it destroys the community in any way—rather, it brings up some good points. Using it to analyze in-game laws and identify weak spots could be beneficial. In my opinion, fixing those weak spots would make RP even less exploitable, especially when it comes to trading, which is currently insane. Pirating someone isn’t as easy as it should be. From what I remember, people would barely interact—if at all—and just try to fly away as quickly as possible. They’d pay the pirate and move on, and that was it.

Coming back to the RP aspect of my POBs—what frustrated me was that people basically ignored RP. Not that they destroyed it, but they just didn’t engage with it.

As I consider rejoining, I’ve noticed a lot of changes that seem beneficial—for example, the POB damage mechanics. Now, people can’t just stay logged in 24/7 and destroy a base while you’re busy dealing with real-life responsibilities. And a lot has changed in the economy section. My money seems to have dropped from 100 million to 9 million? Spaces have changed a lot, for example, Dublin. I wonder if there is a fast way to track this correctly so I can incorporate it better into RP.

Thank you for the feedback. It still seems a bit harsh towards ChatGPT, but I’ll give it a try. Hope you recognize that it's not just ChatGPT but also human input

[Lord Caedus]

Well, I do believe my dream was to become a POB owner—and in some way, it still is, as it gives me something to care about in-game. It creates great opportunities for roleplay and is far from all the power trading. In my opinion, those 5k-ish traders who just want to rush to their destination often have the worst RP. But let's not generalize.

I find the discussion about ChatGPT quite interesting. I see ChatGPT as a tool not to create creative RP but rather to improve its quality. For example, if I have an idea but struggle to find the right words, it helps refine and enhance it. It's not the ultimate tool, but it makes things more accessible and comfortable for everyone. I wouldn’t say it destroys the community in any way—rather, it brings up some good points. Using it to analyze in-game laws and identify weak spots could be beneficial. In my opinion, fixing those weak spots would make RP even less exploitable, especially when it comes to trading, which is currently insane. Pirating someone isn’t as easy as it should be. From what I remember, people would barely interact—if at all—and just try to fly away as quickly as possible. They’d pay the pirate and move on, and that was it.

Coming back to the RP aspect of my POBs—what frustrated me was that people basically ignored RP. Not that they destroyed it, but they just didn’t engage with it.

As I consider rejoining, I’ve noticed a lot of changes that seem beneficial—for example, the POB damage mechanics. Now, people can’t just stay logged in 24/7 and destroy a base while you’re busy dealing with real-life responsibilities. And a lot has changed in the economy section. My money seems to have dropped from 100 million to 9 million? Spaces have changed a lot, for example, Dublin. I wonder if there is a fast way to track this correctly so I can incorporate it better into RP.

Thank you for the feedback. It still seems a bit harsh towards ChatGPT, but I’ll give it a try. Hope you recognize that it's not just ChatGPT but also human input

The important distinction is that some people use AI to help them RP, and some people use it to RP on their behalf. The former is understandable, we have plenty of people here that aren't native English speakers, and them having tools to assist with that is beneficial for everyone on the whole. The latter is simply an insult to anyone that takes the time to put in some actual effort to write RP, and people that perform like the latter should be called out for it.

As far as using AI to "analyze" in-game laws, I don't really see the point. They're already being analyzed by the admin team, and for whatever faults you think they have, they tend to keep the laws at a reasonable level.

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