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Bluntage · 10-13-2009, 03:13 PM,

So I was thinking....

We should remove the cargo restrictions on regular Zoner ID and restrict trade to non-house systems just like the guard ID. I think trading rules between Zoner ID and Zoner Guard ID should be the same. I've never been a big fan of cargo restrictions as they have no real RP signifigance (that I can see). Making them the same makes sense to me.

What do you think?

Marcus Lindberg · 10-13-2009, 03:19 PM,

Planet Erie.

Its a zoner controlled and administered planet within Liberty space. What you are suggesting would cripple the economic boom that Erie has been experiencing.

Furthermore, zoners control a significant part of each houses economy, think 10% to 15%. If zoners stopped trading in house space, each house would be economically crippled in a uncontrollable recession. In average, each of the houses economies increase by 2% to 3% each year (perhaps a little more for Rheinland since their economy isn't that great as the other economies).

Furthermore, zoners get a lot of their resources from house space. What you suggest would destroy both te houses and the zoners (not to mention the Order and the Corsairs since they both get supplies from the zoners).

Just my 2 cents.

darthbeck · 10-13-2009, 03:19 PM,

no. there are reasons why the ID's are diffrent.

' Wrote:<span style="font-family:Century Gothic">Violence is Golden</span>

**Barrier** · 10-13-2009, 03:31 PM,

In my opinion, the ID's either should both have the 3.8k restriction, or stay as they are.

Dab · 10-13-2009, 04:19 PM,

If they were both the same, what would be the point of having two?

As Beck said, there are reasons they are different.

Drake · 10-13-2009, 04:51 PM,

' Wrote:Furthermore, zoners control a significant part of each houses economy, think 10% to 15%. If zoners stopped trading in house space, each house would be economically crippled in a uncontrollable recession. In average, each of the houses economies increase by 2% to 3% each year (perhaps a little more for Rheinland since their economy isn't that great as the other economies).

Uhm, no they don't. While lots of smaller and/or borderworlds/edgeworlds factions rely heavily on Zoner trade, the Houses have no such dependence. All the Houses have their own corporations which, along with the corporations of the other Houses, do all their importing and exporting. Zoner trade with the Houses makes up an insignificant fraction of the economy.

SigCorps · 10-13-2009, 07:12 PM,

Considering the changes that were just made to the Zoner guard ID, I think everything is as it should be. Guard folks can no longer dock in house space unless at an IMG/GMG base or PL Erie. So it is not like we are making cash by busting into house corp routes. Also most of our internal routes have been reduced by 10 to 30%, so having a whale does not give then any advantage over anyone at this point. Both these moves have caused most of the power traders to flee the zoners (thankfully) and the rest of us now have to use the smaller ships if we have in house routes, or have to work even harder to make the same cash as anyone else. I see no reason to limit this ID any further.

Formerly Sam Nichols, creator of OSI

Bluntage · 10-13-2009, 09:00 PM,

' Wrote:If they were both the same, what would be the point of having two?

As Beck said, there are reasons they are different.

There are reasons eh? That's really specific....

Well there would still be two...since you need Zoner Guard ID for capships just like all the other major factions. I'm not talking about this from a "rule" view specifically, I'm talking about it in regards to role-play. It makes roleplay sense to have the trading rules the same for both IDs.

What exactly is the role-play reason that a regular Zoners can't have a ship that carries more than 3800? There isn't really one, it's about balance as far as I know. So why not have them both the same? As an alternative I think moving the Zoner Guard ID to Freeport XV could be a good idea as well. If I can go buy say an Interspace ID and trade with just as many bases as I can with a Zoner Guard ID only the latter is much more difficult to get, then how is that fair?

If anyone responds then please give constructive criticism (like Sigcorps post for example).

SigCorps · 10-13-2009, 10:02 PM,

' Wrote:There are reasons eh? That's really specific....

Well there would still be two...since you need Zoner Guard ID for capships just like all the other major factions. I'm not talking about this from a "rule" view specifically, I'm talking about it in regards to role-play. It makes roleplay sense to have the trading rules the same for both IDs.

What exactly is the role-play reason that a regular Zoners can't have a ship that carries more than 3800? There isn't really one, it's about balance as far as I know. So why not have them both the same? As an alternative I think moving the Zoner Guard ID to Freeport XV could be a good idea as well. If I can go buy say an Interspace ID and trade with just as many bases as I can with a Zoner Guard ID only the latter is much more difficult to get, then how is that fair?

If anyone responds then please give constructive criticism (like Sigcorps post for example).

The RP behind it is that guard folks should be more concerned about their core NPC affiliation. Meaning they are the most hardcore version of their NPC's. They would care the most about seeing their faction do well. In the case of the Zoners they would be most inclined to trade exclusively with Zoner installations and close allies. Making sure their stations and planets are well stocked and protected. Now regular Zoners would not be as hard core and they would trade with the houses. There are items that are needed by the Zoner installations from house corporations. Just like there are house corps that need items that only Zoners have, like Iridium. It make sense in RP that there would be trade between the Zoners and house corporations. Just like there is trade between each house and just about every other faction. To say that the Zoners need nothing made by the houses is a tad silly. That and since Zoner Freeports supply many items that can not be purchased by other outside factions, then they would not be able to get items they need. This would not just affect the Zoners it would affect many factions, since in RP those items would not longer be sold on Zoner installations.

As for moving the guard ID's location, that really does not matter. It's still a pain to get and requires max guard rep. We could sell it on Freeport 15 and it would still be troublesome to acquire. Having it sold on Corinth just means we are selective about who gets it, just like any other guard faction.

Formerly Sam Nichols, creator of OSI

Bluntage · 10-14-2009, 12:31 AM,

I see your points there SigCorps. You've convinced me on the separate Zoner ID and Guard ID but I still think we should move the Guard ID to Freeport XV. It's still the hardest guard ID to get even without a gigantic minefield. If the mod changes were to make things fair then it only makes sense that all Guard IDs are of somewhat equal difficulty to acquire. Yes?

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Poll: Should the Zoner Cargo Capacity limitation be removed on standard Zoner ID and Guard ID Rules Apply You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Yes	29.27%	12	29.27%
No	70.73%	29	70.73%
Total		41 vote(s)	100%