Anyone who has done a pure-mission moneymaking character knows that is a pure PAIN to get enough money to even buy a VHF. The highest paying missions are around 600K in the Omicron base systems (Crete, Malta) and even those aren't a very good investment because its going to take a pretty long time to kill those 3+ BH destroyers. And you can't use those to buy a VHF or LF MKII, because you need one of those to do those missions in the first place.
I personally don't trade because I find it an incredibly easy and an incredibly lame way at making massive amounts of cash for little to no risk. After all, if someone pirates you, you're losing only about 10-20% of the trip you're making at that very moment, so they're making a measly amount of cash while you're just saying "lolz oh well I'm still going to make a 30 mil net gain".
This, along with the fact that I despise capital ships (Can't explain it, I just don't like 'em) is why I'm running mostly inferior equipment on a Blood Dragon, and the good equipment I do have (Nuclear mines) I don't use very often because its so expensive and I don't have the cash to spam them and use 20 of them every battle. This is also why I basically can't even kill a gunboat unless I'm extremely lucky.
Why is this a good thing?
1) It makes it so that not everyone who's been playing for more than 5 hours and knows what they're doing has a capital ship.
2) It makes it so you have to CHOOSE (CHOICES?! WHAT!) between equipment: Do you want those awesome guns, or those awesome shields right now? Do you want to spend your money now on an armor upgrade MK II, or do you want to run a few more missions/trading runs to get the MK IV upgrade? Do you want to get a gunboat with not-very-good equipment, or do you want to outfit that fighter you've got now?
3) It makes it so that fighters are the dominant force in the battlefield. There should be at least a 5-to-1 ratio of snub fighters -> capital ships on the battlefield. Whenever you see a fight, its usually either bomber vs Cap ship or Cap ship vs Cap ship. This is boring. You RARELY see fighter vs fighter combat unless the people with the fighters are restricted to them by clan rules or they are alternate characters for exploring through rocky space.
4) You can either choose the easier longer path (trading) or the harder faster path (missions) to gain money. More choices! Yay!
PS: Yes, I did search. All I found was that mission rewards needed to be raised (...), so I'm offering a counter argument.
PPS: I am not proposing mission rewards stay the same. I am proposing that they go up a SMALL (SMALL) amount so that you can actually buy a capital ship without playing for 150 hours.
' Wrote:1) It makes it so that not everyone who's been playing for more than 5 hours and knows what they're doing has a capital ship.
It took me well over 30+ hours of trading to get a battleship, the reason is i don't have another one is because im not going through that agane, so it isnt as easy as your making out.
Plus you have to ad in the boredom factor of trading, all those hours trading is a killer, yeah missions should go up but i don't think trading should go down.
You say you havnt traded so your hardly in a position to say how bad or good it is.
To me, the matter is simple. Going from A to B and back = boring, when it gives reasonable cash, then half that. When it brings little, I just maintain my chars on waht I loot/rob/capture/kill/mission-pay
Shooting(even NPCs) = fun when doesn't tae too long. I'm not talking about an absolute pwnzoring of thise NPCs (what they are made for anyway), but difficult to survive missions, that give hard pay. Killing 12 sabres in omega 15? sure... If they don't bounce around abd b/b into infinity. taking on 8 Osiris-class battleships? Either suicide or an infinity of gun strafes. And for what? Barely enough to restock ammo and cover the repair costs?
On another mod, missions were the main source of income. each NPC had a lil' something onboard, that cost horrendous money on a nearest battleship-base. These thingies (costing 150 000cr. there) made up more than half of the overall mission income. (base - from 200k to 960k) Then - a capship there cost a minimum of 800 mil. Setting up a fighter was nearly as expensive as on disco, but pimping it out needed much more... 10 mil a piece of equipment (best scanner, armor, shield, etc...) It worked. Haven't seen anyone but BIG clans flying capships there. The NPCs there didn't have the advanced AI of the disco ones, as such were quicker kills, but nevertheless, alone against the dozen of them, I had little chance of survival. They just had very good weaponry.
So to sum up, trade is fine as it is, boring enough to make me want to drop disco, profitable enough to make me stay.
Missions however have lost their initial goal - the primary source of a fighter pilot's income. Not enough gain for the effort.
' Wrote:It took me well over 30+ hours of trading to get a battleship, the reason is i don't have another one is because im not going through that agane, so it isnt as easy as your making out.
Plus you have to ad in the boredom factor of trading, all those hours trading is a killer, yeah missions should go up but i don't think trading should go down.
You say you havnt traded so your hardly in a position to say how bad or good it is.
Capital ship =/= Battleship
Capital ship = Gunboat, Cruiser, Battleship
Sorry, I meant to say I said I don't trade, not that I haven't traded. I'll fix it.
Also: I've played well over 50 hours and I still don't have very much money to throw away. 30+ hours for an outfitted battleship is ridiculous (Ridiculously short, not ridiculously long).
' Wrote:Well, in real life, service men don't make much money, but enterprisers do. It's a fact. Merchanting makes more than fighting.
Good thing this isn't real life.
(By the way, I hate that argument, as it adds nothing for discussion unless this was a simulation/realism game. It's not.)
' Wrote:Also: I've played well over 50 hours and I still don't have very much money to throw away. 30+ hours for an outfitted battleship is ridiculous (Ridiculously short, not ridiculously long).
Good thing this isn't real life.
Not if you have a life, i get a couple of hours play time a day at most, so it took well over 2 weeks for me to save enough cash to get that ship, thats alot of boring time when i could have been playing the game so it isn't that easy for most people because most people dont/carnt sit at the computer for 24 hours to do it like that.
' Wrote:Well, in real life, service men don't make much money, but enterprisers do. It's a fact. Merchanting makes more than fighting.
Yes, it is true that in reality a service member usually isnt paid very well in terms of cash. However, service members always have excellent benefits, which cant be duplicated in this game...so why not increase their cash payout to equal it out. Also, your overlooking that service members dont have to pay for their equipment, its handed to them to use...(and hopefully not lose). Service members wouldnt normally have to pay for their ships, weapons, or missiles...it would be handed to them.
You also overlook mercenarys, who would probably be the majority of the people taking planetary missions. In reality...if you want to look at it, a mercenary that currently goes to iraq makes approx. 150.000 dollars per contract. Thats equal to, or higher than, the average persons yearly paycheck in the USA. So if you truly want to factor in "reality", one mission should equal a whole lot more than you make in a day of trading, but it would also take several people to complete one of those missions.
If you want my opinion on the whole cap ship thing(not like it matters), capital ships are war machines. Designed exclusively for that, nothing else. They are also built by organizations with a lot of money, more than a single person could make, generally in his lifetime. Good thing this isnt reality, cause i dont wanna work my whole life at this game for a bship lol. However, one person should not be able to aquire, much less outfit a battleship in 30 hours of straight trading. It should take a organization of dedicated and motivated personnel to even get a bship. As it is, I can grab a book and chill for 2 hours while trading, or even watch a movie, and have a cruiser. 2 hours? And itll be fully outfitted with 6 hours of trading. (Im figuring 36.000.000 credits per hour here.) Dont you think it should take a little more than that? Everyone and their mother can pop in the movie 300 and then click a jumphole and 'goto'. Perhaps lowering the cost of certain items, increasing capital ship prices, and decreasing money from trading would be a good idea?
One final thing...pirates and cap ships? I know everyone wants it to be fair fighting, yada yada yada. I've played a pirate my whole freelancer career(5 yrs) and never once did I care if it was fair or not. Its not supposed to be fair, if your a pirate, you arent supposed to be attacking military targets. The whole point of a pirate is to attack civilian and commercial targets of oppurtunity. What gain is there to attack military targets? All you do is risk your life. As such, where would a pirate organization get the resources to even build a capital ship? Wouldnt the House Militaries notice something like that and swoop in so fast you'd be left wondering if you saw an illusion? Pirates arent militaries, they arent well-trained, dedicated personnel(except perhaps OC's and Corsairs), they dont have the resources of a nation backing them. I know this was all done in the interest of fairness, but you shouldnt care if your a pirate anyway.
Exactly, you get many benifits as a service member, not much cash.
Disco's trader paycheck is fine. I do agree that missions should offer more money.
DONT DO SUPER HARD MISSIONS. just do a bunch of moderate missions and you make money.
In fact, i had my own char before on open sp as a fighter started with 8500 too see exactly how well i did. Guess what? i survived. just did some easy missions after i loaded my char, got a better ship, and progressed.
just dont push your ship with the missions and you will make profits though not as much as a trader
Loyal SA Commander
-It's simple. Houston has the best BBQ, and Denver has the best doughnuts! -Belkin (snack conversation)
' Wrote:Not if you have a life, i get a couple of hours play time a day at most, so it took well over 2 weeks for me to save enough cash to get that ship, thats alot of boring time when i could have been playing the game so it isn't that easy for most people because most people dont/carnt sit at the computer for 24 hours to do it like that.
I barely play this game, I've just been playing it for a while. The reason I've logged 50 hours on the mod and nobody knows about me is, (1) I wasn't in a decent ship half the time, I was doing cruddy missions, and (2) I don't really post on the forums much, I do read them though.
It should take you more than 2 weeks to get the best ship possible. It's dumb how fast you can get it now.
' Wrote:One final thing...pirates and cap ships? I know everyone wants it to be fair fighting, yada yada yada. I've played a pirate my whole freelancer career(5 yrs) and never once did I care if it was fair or not. Its not supposed to be fair, if your a pirate, you arent supposed to be attacking military targets. The whole point of a pirate is to attack civilian and commercial targets of oppurtunity. What gain is there to attack military targets? All you do is risk your life. As such, where would a pirate organization get the resources to even build a capital ship? Wouldnt the House Militaries notice something like that and swoop in so fast you'd be left wondering if you saw an illusion? Pirates arent militaries, they arent well-trained, dedicated personnel(except perhaps OC's and Corsairs), they dont have the resources of a nation backing them. I know this was all done in the interest of fairness, but you shouldnt care if your a pirate anyway.
I know pirates aren't supposed to attack military targets - weak pirates especially. The fact of the matter is, now that almost everyone is in a capship, you can't avoid attacking non-military targets if you want something. Chasing a trader? They'll either call in their buddy or call in the KNF (I'm a Blood Dragon, obviously) to come get rid of me. The only way you ever get to do anything is if you get the jump on a trader, CD him, hope it hits, and he doesn't start running. If he runs, and you kill him, you get nothing. There really isn't any sensible death penalty ATM, so traders can just run if you don't have the necessary firepower to take them down quickly. But I'll address that gripe later.
Anyways, there need to be less people in capital class ships. Only the rich or the well connected should have anything more than a gunboat, and gunboats should still be for the people who have played for a long time. I have no quarrel with the KNF, the RM, etc. having capital ships, but it gets incredibly ridiculous when you see GUNBOATS escorting traders, as well as gunboats attacking traders. Gunboats, Cruisers, and Battleships are, like Zaknafein said, war machines. You don't use them to escort anything but the highest priority target, nor do Pirates want to risk attacking a trader with them since they have very little to spare in that department of ships. You also don't use them alone. Capital ships should have a glaring weakness in gun-turning speed so that fighters can fly circles around them. Battleships are long range support, Cruisers and Gunboats support the Battleship, the Capital Ships turn the tide in a Fighter vs Fighter battle. The Fighters aren't supposed to minimally help in a Cap ship vs Cap ship battle.
I have no problem with Capital Ships being at their current strength. My problem is that everyone has one.
Well, I gotta agree with Kinslayer at some points. Let's just face it: trading is the only way if you're looking to buy even a cruiser. To all those making parallels out to real life: this is a sci-fi game with wormholes, ftl speeds and so on, yup, that's real life in action, very real. If you want it be super real - just log out and have it. This is game, this is form of entertainment, no need to make it extremely boring just beacuse someone thinks it should be a bit closer to real life. I, for one, came here partially because knowing that I will not need months of boring raid runs to have some fun then, that I had in World of Warcraft and hated it for it. I did those boring trading runs, I bought cruiser, bought battelship, several fighters, several transports. Thing is: none of them were bought on money I got for completing missions. I did missions (and aborted them too) for only one thing: fixing reputation. Personally I'd love to see difficult and rewarding missions which may require several persons completing it. At least it would be another good way to bring entertainment, that's what the game is about.
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