Bomber balance

[mjolnir]

I send most of this to Igiss some 2 weeks ago, just edited it a bit with current experience:
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I think the idea is to make bombers support vessels to attack caps with so that flying alone in a bomber would not make sense.


Bomber should not be able to fire the Supernova + many other weapons at the same time -> if it can fire lvl 9-10 guns at a fighter while still gaining energy to fire the supernova that it can shoot every now and then... it is too good against fighters.
Supernova should take 95+% of the bomber energy so that it cannot effectively fire guns while using it. If the bomber comes into fighter combat, it would still be of some combat value using guns only, but since it has less weapon slots/agility it should be less useful than a fighter. Yes it can support high energy drain weapons for long firing periods - but since it's less agile, it will not be able to track the fighter for long enough to make a difference.

Fighters win against bombers (in 1on 1) by being able to hit them before the bomber can turn on them.


Current issues:

- Bombers can still fire Supernova + other guns quite effectively, worse yet they can fire Supernova + Mini Razor/Inferno at the same time. That means they can do exactly the 1-2 kills like before with two Novas. Bombers can also mount two mini Razors but that makes then almost useless against bigger ships than GBs.

- Bombers are difficult to counter for fighters defending capships

My suggestions for solution

- Bombers should get energy supply decreased ?but recharge rate increased.?

- Bomber agility might be bit lower

- Mini Razor/Inferno - if they should remain fighter weapons? - energy and maybe damage decrease - so that it will make no sense to use them on a bomber - if they can be used effectively on a fighter why bother equiping a bomber with them making it less usefull against caps? If fighters can fire the mini about as often and score more hits due to better agility => no reason to have a bomber.



Now I think Igiss already changed the Mini Razor now... as for the other things... we'll see in new beta.

What do other bomber/ anti-bomber pilots think?

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[bluntpencil2001]

Reducing armour might be a possibility, I guess. No?

I'm certainly in favour of nerfing agility.

Also, a squadron of 2 or 3 bombers with dual Mini-Razors still wreck capital classes, whilst raping fighters.

Maybe... uh... removing the Mini-Razor? <Dodges fruit>

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[Jwnantze]

well, the bomber I use is well balanced. THe Falcata. Neither its agility or its hull are good enough to take on a fighter one on one.

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There is nothing worth living for, unless it is worth dying for. -Elizabeth Elliott

[Unseelie]

every bomber I have, currently uses dual minis...it instakills fighters.
that's my plan for bombing...kill the fighters, and then mine and mini caps.

there's only so much agility or armour that you can nerf, before you make bombers sitting duck against capship guns.

what good does removing the mini do?
a good bomber pilot (Dboy, for example...) can rape any fighter with the supernova.

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[RingoW]

A while ago i have suggested to give the bombers with four weaponslots 2 lvl 8 and 2 lvl 9 weapons only.
For the BHG Bomber and any other with 5 slots 3 lvl 8 weapons.

Sure they can chainfire without an end, but the punch will not be so hard.

Respectfully
AoM

[Sonja]

Currently, if you are good enough, you can still destroy all manner of things in a bomber. The top tier bomber pilots still find it relatively easy to hit things with capital ship killing weapons.

For instance, yesterday I was in my Rheinland bomber, Mariko Kietan, and myself with my escort of three fighters engaged a Corsair fleet whilst on our way to kill the keepers (this was in Omega 5, a direct threat to Bretonian space). I got a few kills with the nova, and a few kills with the supernova. One particularly hard nut to crack was Globalo in his titan, but a nova solved that problem (he was comeing head on to me, but strafing like a madman).

Truth is, though, I never now take my bomber anywhere without a fighter escort. It is imperative that I have one, because even avid bomber pilots cannot withstand the firepower of a hoard of fighters now. Many times I saw myself charging my energy bar, waiting to fire the supernova.

It is very hard to use, now, and for the slower bombers, its balanced. The issue with the mini razors can't be stopped, but the maneuverability of the highest bombers is a problem.

It is my opinion that the bomber class limit of agility should be around 1.08 for the most agile bombers.

Back on to the mini razors, this isn't a problem caused by bomber balance. Apart from this gun, slower bombers are properly balanced. For me it is a challenge to kill even slower, less well pilotted fighters in my bomber in good time. The new bomber style, especially the nova torpedo, has forced me to develop some new tactics which also worked surprisingly well in the first proper bomber engagement I've had since the mod came to the RP server. The mini razors are a problem, but the set up is weak against capital ships. I have no doubt that if I met two bombers in a cruiser with a loadout of my choice, they wouldn't be able to kill me before they either both ran or both died. It's a trade off, and I can't see a clear cut way of solving this trade off.

Slower bomber's, byenlarge, are not very hard to counter unless their pilot is Dboy. What makes it easy to shoot down a bomber is what makes it easy for bombers to shoot down fighters. The mini-razor. Put a few into the slow bomber's while your turning and you have significantly depleted the nonabot and shild battery supply of that bomber. What I see time and again though, is no one who has actually developed proper anti-bomber tactics. Everyone just jousts bombers as they do against fighters. Complete stupidity! And they expect it to be easy at that point to kill bombers? One must remember that you are facing a ship with multiple insta-kill weapons, and jousting with that simply isn't going to work. Its not a failure of bomber balance now (with the slow bombers, that is; the fast ones need some maneuverability taken away). Its the failure of the common tactic used by most people.

To AoM: My Rheinland bomber uses 4 advanced debilitator guns and 2 debilitator turrets, so that isn't a problem, for me at least.

[bluntpencil2001]

Outmaneuvering the Kusari bomber isn't an option for most fighters.

Also, Razoring them with a fighter is bloody difficult now, since fighters don't have the powerplants for it. The bombers find it easier to Razor the fighters. Indeed, a bomber with a Mini-Razor and a Supernova is a ridiculously good all-round fighter.

I think bombers were better balanced last version, where they were easily taken out by fighters if the fighters were flown right. See: RM/TBH war.

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[Sonja]

Hence why I tried to differentiate between the unbalanced fast turning bombers and the balanced slower ones.

I am a rubbish aimer with mini razors, and why I don't use them often. Despite this, I hit a tigershark a while ago with one on the second pass after his shield died.

Surely, if I can do it, you can? All it takes is hard dedicated training.

[bluntpencil2001]

Exactly.

If you can, we can.

Proceed the bomber-whoring.

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[Unseelie]

minis....are very difficult to use.
people know they are coming, because you cannot fire if you want to use one.
the slow bombers, are big sitting ducks....
as long as you slide, you can rape them.
jousting...which, for some reason, is the predominant style here...is idiotic.
jousting a fighter with a torp slot is idiotic.

bombers are less balanced now, than they were.
and people keep flying straight at them.
right.
lets use some intelligence, now.

my first thought, wen I realized the huge disparity between the bombers and the fighter's powerplant was "chainfire minis...at everything"
and, my bombers become the perfect anti fighter object.
which my fighter used to be...but now cant fire minis near well enough.

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