Concerning Running=Death rules

[mwerte]

Ok, earlier I was pirating in Sig-13 in my OC char. All was going well and people were paying me. Then a Corsair Cruiser shows up and starts shooting at me. Now, I'm not a terrible bomber pilot, but there is no way that I can, by myself, beat this guy. I have 2 options.

1) Die, and leave the system
2) Withdraw, and leave the system

As I was contemplating my desicion he made my choice very easy (by killing me) so for that situation I was done.

But my problem with the rules is that they leave no option for tactically withdrawing from a battle. It made no sence for me to stay there and die but it also made no sence for me to run because of the server rules. Both essentially had the same outcome.

This is not designed to find loopholes in the rules, nor is it created to challange the admins. Rather, its a plea to re-evaluate this rule for 4.85. Situations change, rules should change with them.

Edit: I know this rule, I will follow it, I will never intentionally break it, but I will not like it.

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[Jinx]

i am not happy with the retreat rule either - however it gives you the chance to return to the system earlier than 4 hours - once the opponent leaves. imo a retreat should enable you to return after a much shorter time - like 15 or 30 minutes.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Chucc]

This is a good point. I have many times had a cargo bay of stuff I simply didn't wish to fight and maybe lose. I am a treasure hunter, so I loot wrecks and pick up random crap. It makes me chuckle to open my bay and be able to play like its my birthday opening the crates I tractor in. Sometimes I find neat stuff I haven't had before. So then I would not really want to run, as I like my combat practice, but it makes it rough on a guy to have to stay 'in hiding' for such a silly thing as wanting to horde my cargo. I'm not always greedy, I havemany times gone full bore into combat, curse the outcome. I just want that guy DEAD. Well I have lost many a crate of undisturbed cargo that way. Other times I get a few new toys from the guy I just made *POP*. To retreat is not always a lose. (OOC:Napolean would retreat and retreat till he was in his choice of terrain and then reverse and thrust into his opponent. Same for the Romans.) Hence wouldn't a person even more aware that to get ejected could mean death, this is space, it a big place. A lot of good it does me when I go *POP* and I'm stuck staring at my precious cargo wondering whats in that....hey that box is moving away from me!!! Come back my box. Reaching out Just to see it disappear into the guys bay. NOW THAT IS AN INJUSTICE! If I had retreated I might still have that box and many more like it. Maybe the Gods and Goddesses Winks at Caylith, and Eris will hear our cries. Maybe we need to find out witch is the God/dess of the Vanguard, and make a plea to him/her. To watch our retreat and cover our tails. Keep our cargo in our bay for OUR perusal. Now THAT'S a religion I could get behind!

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Looking into returning, maybe.

[Etaphreven]

Yeah, it sucks... Either way, you're dead -.-

[knight2]

ok.. so here is a nice example of loopholing the rules big time from yesterday


1) fight 1

2 BHG GBs (let's call one S) + 1 BHG Destroyer come to Magellan and start shooting on us.

They all get killed.

2) fight 2 (about 1.5 hours later)

BHG BS (liberty carrier) + 1GB (V) come to Magellan

The GB loses all bats/bots and is left with 1/4 of hull when it jumps to Leeds. We follow only to find the previously killed GB (S) sitting at the JH (he didn't fire). We catch a glimpse of the GB (V) leaving towards the planet.

So we jump back to Magellan to finish the BS.... we take down it's shield before it jumps to Leeds as well.
We follow...

There the GB (S) starts firing on our only bomber (that was not there in the fight 1.5hour earlier). So we have to start shooting on it.

We kill it again and then the other GB (V) comes back fully repaired with full bats/bots. When told he might be on the edge of the rules he says "I thrusted"... I find it hard to believe, but anyway he should not have docked and repaired the ship.

Now both those things might not be exactly against the text of the rule but they are very much against the spirit of the rule.


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And no I'm now whining because we lost
LH and allies lost:
1 Fighter (to the destroyer exploding)
1 Bomber

BHG lost
4GBs (one twice, one was just about dead and came back in full repair)
1 Destroyer
1 Bomber
1 Fighter

the remaining BS fled from 4 Fighters armed with only 1 Inferno

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[Reverend Del]

Actually as soon as he started firing on your ally, knowing full well that you would have to return fire, he's breaking the rules. Logic dictates that if he opens fire on your allies he's re-engaging you.

Also running to dock, repairing and then returning to fight, also not allowed. That's fleeing and also subject to the re-engagement rules (have seen Hoodlum being pretty clear on this one in another thread).

The re-engagment rules are not there to enhance RP, unfortunately. It's very clear to see why they are there it prevents the "My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die." thing happening every five minutes. If you want your revenge you just have to wait for four hours. Cool down and decide if it's really worth it. Or post a bounty.

Edit: apologies for the over use of the word "also"

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.

[Dab]

We kill it again and then the other GB (V) comes back fully repaired with full bats/bots. When told he might be on the edge of the rules he says "I thrusted"... I find it hard to believe, but anyway he should not have docked and repaired the ship.

If he docks, cruises, or leaves the battle (even on thrusters) which is about 4k +, thats the general distance most people think of being out of the fight. (If they are 4k away because they are still fighting someone, thats not leaving the battle. I know battles that have spanned 10km once, especially with BSs involved, as they fire at 3k.)

Also, whether you were in a new system or not, that GB could NOT have shot you. If you killed him, he cannot fight you for 4 hours, NO MATTER WHERE IT IS. Also, the second, who ran, was NOT being chased beyong the jumphole, so when he docked at the station, and you flew away, he lost his right to attack those chasing him, as you were no longer doing so. He fled in both Magellan and in Leeds, so he is not allowed to even BE in those systems while you are. However, if you were to find him in a system other than those two, he can engage you. So both of those two GBs should be reported.

Also, running does not equal death. I've ran before, as I don't fancy a cruiser taking my pirate's 50 mil bounty as it offers no difficulty for the BHG who is simply cap spamming. I just want him to know that if he spams caps, I will not fight (if you bring fighters/bombers, I will always fight you, unless you have capship support [I'm a VHF..] or there are 5 of you and one of me..). Now, twice when that has happened, the person yells out in system chat "Oh, you ran, your dead!" Then I proceed to tell him to shove it up his arse, though more politely, within rules according to the swearing rule. The rules specifically define two separate types of leaving a battle. One is running. Now both declare you cannot enter the system you died/fled in/from, however, when your dead, you cannot engage those that killed you for four hours, but if you fled, you can engage them anywhere BUT the system you fled from. So if you flee from Sigma-13 and you fly into Chugoku, but that player does not chase you. However, one hour later, you see him in Honshu, you may attack him, as you did not flee from him in that system.

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[MB52]

First of all, lets figure out why the no retreat rule is in place.

Is it because of the fact that people may run, reload on bots/bats and come back to fight?

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I’ll carry this flag
To the grave if I must
Because it’s flag that I love
And a flag that I trust

[Dab]

First of all, lets figure out why the no retreat rule is in place.

Is it because of the fact that people may run, reload on bots/bats and come back to fight?

That and because people will go to cruise, regen the shield, then come right back, and repeat every time the shield falls.
Maybe lower the time till you can go back in to 1 hour for retreat, keep 4 for death. That actually gives a point to fleeing, rather than just getting shot till you die.

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[MB52]

Yeah, that could be a solution, maybe even less, like a half hour for running?

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I’ll carry this flag
To the grave if I must
Because it’s flag that I love
And a flag that I trust