Hi! Been awhile I know--though I still get a "I'm a Junker what should I do?" PM about every month or two..
I've been playing (in my limited free time) for the past year a game called Sins of a Solar Empire. It's a RTS but can also be played solo.
The game is moddable but--like Freelancer-- has a bit of a learning curve when you get into deeper things. That said, it is pretty flexible. There is also already an fairly extensive modding community to assist there as well and you might even gain some Freelancer converts there.
When I had been active in-game here, there had been discussion about creating some method for resolving full-scale factional wars--other than having "fleet engagements" with whatever faction members happened to be on.
Sins could actually provide an engine to do this. The modding community here is pretty knowledgeable and I can't imagine it would be too difficult to mod Sins into a Freelancer universe. This in fact was apparently done in part some time back but upgrades to the game have left that mod dated and obsolete.
What can be done rather easily (for experienced individuals) in Sins is this:
Duplication of ship models--requires conversion to XSI format, tools free and available.
Duplication of weapons damage and even some effects--free particle engine available.
Duplication of planets, stations and textures.
Duplication of systems and gate lanes/wormholes--easily done with text or game provided editor.
Duplication of exact player and npc fleet resources customizable even to the individual level of each ship.
Sins can be played via lan or online through a game server as well as solitaire offline. It is a long play, strategic level game that can be played with humans, AI players and npc pirates or with any combination of them.
It would be a great way to develop the "grand backdrop" for Discovery. ..Who won what war? What are diplomatic standings? etc., etc. There are even diplomatic victory scenarios for Sins which are customizable..
I know the full-on developers here have their hands full but this is something that might be done piecemeal and collaboratively over time by many members of the playing community. The bulk of the work would be model creation. What remains is pretty easy to do once you have the basics of modding the text entity files of Sins.
Info on Sins can be had at Sins of a Solar Empire.
If anyone decides to tackle it and wants tips or someone to ask questions of I'm happy to help in all areas--except modeling--there I can refer you. I do have modding experience with Sins and I am Sinperium on the official game forum.
Modding another game just to be able to settle the diplomatic and conquests between factions 'in a easier' way just doesn't worth it. It would require time, developers and a lot of understanding. I'd say stick to Freelance and make it better. Just my opinion.
That idea is pretty good to me.
I remember a year ago, there had been talks about finding how to solve large scale assaults other than with fleet engagements. Someone had the idea of modding a FPS to suit our needs of indoor fighting but it was then deemed impractical and a waste of time.
Your idea on the other hand seems more logical ; I can see plenty of opportunities for this to work. And FL's game mechanics themselves could also be exported into SoaSE, which already works in quite the same way (Different types of weapon, shields, etc).
It would add a lot of flavor and depth to Disco, while solving the long-standing issue of large-scale wars. Only problem I'd see would be the scale, actually ; Unless there is a way to make large systems in SoaSE, the fights would be restricted to small areas.
(06-14-2019, 12:25 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: If everyone was a bit more like Lanakov, the entire world would be more positive. Including pregnancy tests.
' Wrote:That idea is pretty good to me.
I remember a year ago, there had been talks about finding how to solve large scale assaults other than with fleet engagements. Someone had the idea of modding a FPS to suit our needs of indoor fighting but it was then deemed impractical and a waste of time.
Your idea on the other hand seems more logical ; I can see plenty of opportunities for this to work. And FL's game mechanics themselves could also be exported into SoaSE, which already works in quite the same way (Different types of weapon, shields, etc).
It would add a lot of flavor and depth to Disco, while solving the long-standing issue of large-scale wars. Only problem I'd see would be the scale, actually ; Unless there is a way to make large systems in SoaSE, the fights would be restricted to small areas.
How so? It is possible to have several solar systems, I believe infinite if that should be required, however that requires players with a good computer.
I was talking about the size, not the amount. Every bubble in this game is centered around a planet ; it would be tedious to have several bubbles for one system in particular.
(06-14-2019, 12:25 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: If everyone was a bit more like Lanakov, the entire world would be more positive. Including pregnancy tests.
' Wrote:I was talking about the size, not the amount. Every bubble in this game is centered around a planet ; it would be tedious to have several bubbles for one system in particular.
The size of said "bubble" is indicated in the game files, and could be altered should that be required. I imagine the phaselanes as "tradelanes" or marked buoy tracks.
A Problem I see with this concept is the way combat goes in freelancer. Battleships do not just sit at range and duke it out, they sometimes go close in or fishtail and kite. While applying the fighter characteristics to the warships would be possible, it would take a HELL of a lot of balancing and observing how different people fight in different ships, creating a balance nightmare...
Power does not corrupt. Fear corrupts... perhaps the fear of a loss of power.
I have played Sins for a while now, and judging by the modding interface and many of the mods I have currently seen, I would say that making a total conversion mod for sins would be perfectly feasible. I see no immediate problems with the platform for the mod; almost everything you can think of in Sins mods can be accomplished with a team of skilled modders. However, there are a few big differences in the gameplay between Sins and FL Disco that jump right out at me. I realize you explained a few of these already, but I would like you to go into more detail as to the specifics of the gameplay that you plan to change in the mod. They are as follows:
1. Sins functions on a resource based economy, where as Disco functions on a credit based economy. In sins, there is actually a monetary resource that can be earned called "credits," but it is pared with two other resources, Metal and Crystal. It could be possible to just elimiate the need for Metal and Crystal in the game, but that might result in a lack of variety and strategic fun. If you do plan to keep resources in the Disco mod, what will they be? Will they be harvested in the same way as in Sins, or will they follow a new method for resource gathering?
2. Fleet composition is very different in Sins and Disco. Whereas Sins follows a method of having a few large and powerful cap ships, with a mixed group of support cruises, massive amounts of frigates and squadron controllable fighter groups that launch from cap ships, Disco fleets focus mainly on one or two large Capitals, with some gunboats and maybe one or two groups of fighters and bombers. The power gap between Disco fighters and capships is much smaller than the gap between Sins fighters and capships, or even Sins frigates and capships for that matter! Will the differences in ship class be similar to what they are in Disco or in Sins? Will single fighters even be controllable in the mod, or will they only be accessed via squadron, as they are in Sins?
3. Sins strategic gameplay is focused around a set of mega-factions, controlled by the computer or the players. There are a few smaller factions in the game, but they are mainly just loose rabble and NPC fodder, and make no attempts to even leave their home planet. Disco, on the other hand, is full of small factions. Will you include lots of small, player factions, or will the mod's gameplay focus more on the larger factions in conflict with each other?
4. Map layout is very different in Sins that it is in disco. Sins maps focus on two scales: Planetary and Galactic, with "Phase lanes" making paths to various orbital bodies around a star, and interstellar travel being only possible by flying to the stars orbit and flying to another star. Discover maps focus on three scales: Local, Solar and Galactic, with travel between solar systems being instantaneous and via jump gate. Also, interstellar travel is very different between the two games. Whereas Sins allows a person to distribute their ships in a small orbit around stellar objects, with phase lanes functioning as a sort of highway on which no interaction takes place and unaccessible spaces between stellar bodies, Discovery offers an essentially open solar system, in which people are guided by, but not restricted to, trade lanes and stellar bodies. What's more, trade lanes aren't just simple "Pop in, pop out" situations like the phase lanes in Sins; they can be disrupted, people can jump into one in the middle of a lane, and are actually located within an accessible area of space, unlike the weird 'void' that separates all stellar objects in sins. Restricting combat and operations to only the small orbital areas around planets and stations, as well as making tradelanes 'locked' like phaselanes are in Sins would create some incredible changes in tactical thinking from the way battles are fought in Disco today. Would you try to change the mod such that travel and map scale more closely resembled Disco today, or would you make the mod more similar to what Sins is now, and just have combat and strategy change?
5. In Disco, there are a thousand variables, brought on by each ship on the field being piloted by an individual person. Pilot skill and fleet coordination affect battles more than ship numbers and advanced equipment. However, in Sins, each ship responds to the commands of it's leader perfectly, and all individual ship movements are controlled by AI, which is guided by the player's commands. Granted, given the large scale of warfare that is planned for this mod, the shift of control from the individual pilots to commanders could be a good thing, as it could more accurately portray the unity and professionalism amongst many of the militaries in Disco, as opposed to a bunch of guys shouting at each other over skype. Do you plan to keep the control of players similar to that of Sins, or introduce and element of individual personality amongst the individual ships?
Thats all for now. I'm sure I can come up with a few more questions later.
Now as for the mod, this is something that I would really like to see. Not only do I support it, but I would be willing to help people out in making it with whatever skills I can offer. However, I don't think that the events that happen within the games played in this mod. I would much prefer it to be something that can be played as more of a 'hypothetical' thing, where people can get together and play long games while acting the roles of their groups, while possibly basing their actions and RP on events that happen in Discovery. However, for the events that happen in these mods to affect discovery or the forums would be very disastrous in my opinion, and I would not support any Disco based consequences for inMod games or activities.
All in all, good idea, just get rid of the part where it actually affects RP on the disco server and forums.
' Wrote:All in all, good idea, just get rid of the part where it actually affects RP on the disco server and forums.
Yeah--as a mod, Sins-Freelancer (for Sins) would be fun in and off itself.
Creating Freelancer models isn't even a necessity--though someone did make the Liberty B-ship years ago in the game.
"Phase lanes" in Sins are "Trade lanes" in Freelancer. To add a pretty touch, a gate model from Freelancer could be created (imported) into Sins and used as a "planet entity" which would let you actually place gate lanes as you liked. Models are not my strongpoint so if people want "pretty", that will take some Discovery participation.
Sins is a 32 bit game and the memory use in very long "empire wide" battles can bump the limit of 32 bit systems. It does not however take a "powerful computer"--I played with a six year old machine--but no, it's not gonna run on a netbook. There is no need to put the entire universe up for combat resolution -- maps can easily be created and modified in a text editor or with a handy gui and can simply be NY system or one or two of it's adjacent ones. This also isn't suggested to eliminate player vs player battles. If it can be done easily within Freelancer then there's no need. There shouldn't be a use of this to remotely determine which player wins a battle in his fighter against another.
The modifications to ships in Sins are simple text file entries and the simple nature of freelancer weapons really takes down the complexity. You are essentially going into a text file and removing a line for existing abilities and changing "hit" and 'damage" amounts for weapons, shields and hulls. You can pretty much make a direct transfer there and use the values already existing in Freelancer.
I wouldn't suggest making it necessary to play Discovery require participating in Sins but I'll paint a scenario where it can have some value:
You are a fierce Corsair and your ambition is to rule the galaxy. Of course you start from humble beginnings and work your way up. Eventually you are cruising about in your Dream Barbie battleship
and become a real power to be reckoned with.
But darn it, its boring fluttering about in a battleship. You miss your fighter and there are so many political headaches every time you go anywhere in a b-ship that it feels like a liability anyway. Yet that burning lust remains to be master of your--and everyone else's--domain.
So you continue to amass wealth. The gold and artifacts pour in and you are able to buy a fleet of battleships. So now you want to be recognized as a pirate lord--a mighty force--heck, you want to own a planet--you're even willing to fight the current pirate lords for the right to do so--it's your destiny darn it!
You present your assets and suggest your RP and are thoroughly trounced by the powers that be who just aren't willing to alter the status quo for a single, power-hungry player trying to "take over".
So you continue doing donuts in the Gammas and chatting with the ones already in the position you want and just hope gradually over time you'll get chummy enough to be let in. The massive fleet you accumulated sits there and is eventually sold or given away.
You get the point.
As it stands now, having a real personal fleet is really not of much effect or use. It's good for swapping ships for a particular Rp, to earn some cash or participate in a set level of combat sometimes. But a "fleet"--there's not a lot of incentive to burn cash to own twelve battleships...and you will never own a planet or even be able to claim a measurable share in one.
So you throw in Sins as a device. You state your rp in Discovery and you present your assets and declare war or rebellion or a challenge to the council. You become a military rebel. Instead of simply being RP'd out of existence as a force without a shot being fired you put your fleet up against the unified Corsairs in Sins. You duke it out and then RP the results.
This sort of scenario makes those who want to run things have to maintain fleets and assets not just claim them conceptually. The same method here could be applied to house vs house battles. It doesn't have to be a full blown, every house war--it can just be signicant battles affecting a particular planet or even just a group of players. Also, the idea here is not to replace freelancer combat--it's to allow faction and fleet actions that aren't really workable within the game. It also isn't to replace Rp--that still has to be present.
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