Fuel

[RmJ]

Your possible fuel types.


Oil products - French Gallia - Plentiful solid fuel cells, cheap. Lasts the same as HFUEL.


Prometheum - French Gallia - Rare unstable and expensive. Lasts 9 times that of HFUEL.


Bio Fuel - All Space - Super Cheap, stable, Lasts half the time of HFUEL (Clean)


Plutonium - Sirius Wide, Kusari Export. Super Expensive , 9 times that of HFUEL. Restricted to military use.

Mox Fuel - Sirius Wide, Bretonian Export, Super Expensive, lasts 8 times that of HFUEL

Deuterium - Sirius Wide, Omega Export, Fairly Expensive, 4 times that of HFUEL.

H FUEL - Sirius Wide, Kusari Export, Fairly cheap, medium durability. 1 UNIT OF FUEL LASTS 60 Minutes.


Oh no...Zigeris is proposing it again.


Yes I am.

Fuel Requirements for ships.

Pros: When the Player owned bases come out and we can set our own commodities and such this will sore the market for FUEL based commodities. More ways to get rich. And more, desperately more, dependency on trading factions. Such will create more team work between Trading factions and Military Factions. More in depth game play.

Cons: "Feels too much like real life, does not want real life." And "I don't want to be in a middle of a fight and run out of fuel." And "It'd be to expensive and difficult to get fuel."


How does Zigeris believe this can be achieved?


Well considering that every Engine must have a core I was thinking that each ship will have a default fuel cell up gradable by class and restricted by class. Such as a Transport able to Exchange HFUEL cells for BioFuel Cells but not able to get Military Grade Cells such as MOX or whichever comes about. Transports and some various other classes of ships may be able to mount two types of fuel cells. For emergency purposes.

What happens when we run out of fuel?

That is a good debate. But since you could Engine Kill your way to anywhere I say your thruster and Cruise should be effected (yes it's been argued that they're on separate systems). OR just impluse and thruster (kinda makes it a easy one for traders...but) Military Ships in combat and off trade lane patrol would be crucial issue for them. Traders would have to impulse to the nearest trade lane and dock to acquire fuel. Smugglers would have to be careful of this too especially on routes that they take no lanes on. Pirates would have a limited time lane sitting in fighters would give demands more purpose.

What about refueling? What if a base doesn't carry my fuel type?

I understand the concern. One way I thought about it was that for NPC bases that every base sells HFUEL- And Bio Fuel's but at a massively expensive amount due to their relationship with the supplier and the availability of the supplier (Except BIO Fuels it's meant to be the second bread to HFuel). Every base as some sort of reserve somewhere. Player Bases can't say go PM the owner. If you're a trader in house space you shouldn't have a problem finding a NPC Fuel Vendor for a high price. If you're outside house space it might be more difficult but Freeports are always your best bet. IF you're military having Fuel Tankers would drastically reduce your concerns. Also...Carriers.... use them. (Yes assuming the players can dock on ships).


How will players control the fuel market?

This is really a market of first come first served. I mainly talk about HFUEL because it is the precipitous bread and butter of Sirius. But basically this: Supplier GMG or GMG licensed extractor, Shipper to a player base, Fuel Vendor at the base. You could do this on your own or use Official factions do to this work. It might be cheaper for you to do it on your own it might not be cheaper. If a VHF can hold enough fuel to last a week (161 hours of flight time) you have to consider your demand verses supply. Too confusing? Not really. If you're just a consumer then all you have to worry about is finding the cheapest Gas station. If you're a supplier that's where things get fun. For me at least. If a company holds various vendors in key parts of the Galaxy then surely you can see prices stake high. But if there is competition between vendors then you'll see the prices juggle around. That is the beauty of a dynamic market.

So if a fighter can fill up for entire week's worth of flight time how would I remember to check?

I would like to add another health bar. >_> simple and stress free.

I got tired of thinking of responses.... so you can add your own iz hittin' the post button...

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[Huhuh]

More expenses means more time trading, which means more time doing something I loathe.

I don't have the time to be running around trading just so I can FLY (not even fight, just to FLY) my ships.

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[SeaFalcon]

No,
No,
No,

I don't want to play a simulation game.
Just Freelancer with some mod that adds systems and ships and a few guns and RP/PvP.

[RmJ]

I don't want to play a simulation game.

I have a feeling someone didn't actually read the poll questions.


But ye I heard the explanation of Arcade Verses Simulator. I am untouched by it. >_> Sorry.

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[Friday]

There is a distinction between light and heavy fuels, and their usage.

Your light fuels are Deuterium, H-Fuel (a blend that includes deuterium) and Gallic Oil. I am not sure about the Bio-Fuel - unless its a Nomad thing in a class of its own.

The light fuels are generally used for smaller ships and remote bases. In terms of combat effects - it would be very interesting to see light fuels required for the use of thrusters.

This would have an interesting effect. If you die, you lose your cargo, you cant use the thruster until you resupply. It might actually help prevent some instances of re-engagement as a result.


Heavy fuels are MOX, Plutonium and Promethium if I am not mistaken. They are used by large bases and capital ships - needing heavier reactors to handle the fuel.

There is a new type of travel that will be available in 4.86....JUMP DRIVES. Perhaps no heavy fuel, no jump drive?


Overall, I am in favour of the idea - but not for affecting the cruise engines that people need to get around normally.

Given we will be having a Gallic Invasion, fuel requirements for combat will encourage the establishment of supply lines, as well as storage and handling of fuel. I would expect that fuel is widely available, but subject to price variation as we see now in the economy.

As long as you can still buy fuel from a base it would be a very interesting concept. It means that a fuel distributor like Kishiro can have some political clout - but not to an overbearing degree (people can still get their fuel, but would have to pay local market price, rather than getting it at the cheapest point of supply).

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[Death.RunningVerminator]

Zig, it's an interesting proposal.. But.. It's too much man. People don't have the kind of time/want to do this sort of thing. If you want to RP you have fuel, pick some up and fly with it dude. But.. In my opinion, this would just decrease the already decreasing fun of Freelancer.

Sorry man, as much as i love ya to death dude, it's a no from me.

[Friday]

More expenses means more time trading, which means more time doing something I loathe.

I don't have the time to be running around trading just so I can FLY (not even fight, just to FLY) my ships.

You do know how much fuel costs right? Not so much that one would have to grind to get enough for say, 10 units for a snubcraft, or 100 units for a capital ship or large transport.

100 units of Plutonium, at the most expensive sell point will set you back about 300k in credits. 10 units of H-Fuel at the cheapest point will set you back 1100 credits.

Call it a 'death penalty' - and maybe reduce the 4-hour rule as compensation?

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[RmJ]

Zig, it's an interesting proposal.. But.. It's too much man. People don't have the kind of time/want to do this sort of thing. If you want to RP you have fuel, pick some up and fly with it dude. But.. In my opinion, this would just decrease the already decreasing fun of Freelancer.

Sorry man, as much as i love ya to death dude, it's a no from me.

Yes Friday I read your post and agree with near all points....but DRV posted something personal so I must quote him first....



You know the only thing I am excited for in Discoland has only been Player Owned Bases? Freelancer ceased to be fun, game engine wise, after the first time I finished playing the original story years ago. >_>


But really how often do you log 161 hours in a week? >_> Seriously most ships don't get to 100 hours before they're sold or scrapped.


DRV I am not dead yet.... <_< Just wait till I propose pilot weight gain and loss and the effects of poor diets and it's effect on the pilots abilities!



Now Friday's post,

I forgot to figure out something for the squids. No Bio fuel would come from the Biowastes.

Jump drives? Sure....having Jump drives....would really just minimize the needs for lanes and gates... So making them dependent would seem reasonable.

And for Cruise yeah its not what I would like myself but a suggestion is a suggestion. Anyone is able to offer up suggestions.

I like to see it more as a tactical measure and vulnerable point for pointless wars. So I agree again.

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[Huhuh]

You do know how much fuel costs right? Not so much that one would have to grind to get enough for say, 10 units for a snubcraft, or 100 units for a capital ship or large transport.

100 units of Plutonium, at the most expensive sell point will set you back about 300k in credits. 10 units of H-Fuel at the cheapest point will set you back 1100 credits.

Call it a 'death penalty' - and maybe reduce the 4-hour rule as compensation?

Prices were never mentioned, so I don't know what you're on about.

If they were high, it would be annoying.
If they were low, I'd have it on autobuy and forget about the whole fuel dilemma, therefore no point in adding it.

If fuel only lasted a short time, it would annoy the hell out of people operating far from safe areas (Nomads for example).

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[Rapur]

Yeah and capitalships would use a lot, thus flying them would be expensive as hell.

I vote Yes!