this is all ooc. and please forgive my bad grammar and spelling
i am here to play by the rp rules. my char is a very greedy, capitalist pig. i charge high fees for loans and transfers. i dont beleive in taxes even if they are to pay for jump gates, trade lanes, or to pay some pirates starving children in some backwater omega system that cnat even afford to hire police (okay, so that last part was in character)
i will change the names to protect the innocent.
earlier to day i (Trader ID) was talking in chat to a group member and dodging pirates in the New Berlin system. I was outside an outpost (the one west of Planet New Berlin) when i was attacked by a pirtae (or so i guess, i didnt have a chance to scan) and he demanded tax. Since i was only 500 m from the docking port, I decided to flee inside the base. all engagements were in the scope of rp - that much is stipulated. after chatting with the pirate, it was clear he was going to attack me as soon as i left. so here is my question - was i considered to be fleeing and was he allowed to re-engage.
accordiv to pvp rules docking is considered fleeing, but he told me that this is rp rules. i have read the rules page throughly and understand them, but do pvp rules apply to rp engagements? should i have been allowed to leave in peace (although woith my tail firmly tucked between my legs) and not return for 4 hours?
Quote:Jinx (in a sanction report) -
"better remember that talking to them about it should be done before you go off and report them. - a sanction often hurts more than it helps - assistance and understanding can - in a lot of situations be much more beneficial. "
Quote:Xoria (about cheaters\modders)
He can run from Tenacity, but he can't hide from Ioncross
Quote:(out of context, so not gonna name em'
NY is the portal to the very darkest regions of the netherworld.
He was perfectly in his rights to attack you when you undocked. The re-engagement rule applies to to the person who has fled not coming back and starting a new fight, this is simply done to reflect the amount of time it takes to get a ship repaired etc.
He could stay there as long as he wanted demanding credits from you and then attack you when you undocked as you had run away not him.
He was both within the RP and PVP rules, which do actualy support one another.
So in short, yes you fled, and yes he could re-engage you. However if he had run away then he wouldn't be allowed to attack you unless you attacked him.
Just in case you're not aware, even after a pirate plays pinata with your ship, you can still go back to the same system... the 4 hour thing doesnt actually apply to ships with trader IDs. However, the pirate can pirate you again and again if you keep comin back. This has been the subject of a number of posts scattered throughout the forums.
If you wanna truely flee, the best thing would be to just stay docked. Nobody is forcing ya to poke your head out when a pirate is waiting to play whack-a-mole. If you are that serious about not payin the tax, hop onto a different ship in a different system and go about some other business. Bummer, your capitalist pig has to sit on his hands for a while, cringing, rocking back and forth all the while chanting under his breath 'time is money time is money'... poor guy...
' Wrote:He was perfectly in his rights to attack you when you undocked. The re-engagement rule applies to to the person who has fled not coming back and starting a new fight, this is simply done to reflect the amount of time it takes to get a ship repaired etc.
He could stay there as long as he wanted demanding credits from you and then attack you when you undocked as you had run away not him.
He was both within the RP and PVP rules, which do actualy support one another.
So in short, yes you fled, and yes he could re-engage you. However if he had run away then he wouldn't be allowed to attack you unless you attacked him.
One problem here ... a transport is not a combat configured ship. A pirate is likely to only run if military or police show up with bigger guns. At that point, the pirate cannot engage the military or police that chased him away. But the Trader ID'd character is still open season.
Traders are not built for combat and thus are not intended for PVP. To use a trade vessel in a PVP situation is OORP. A trader firing their guns at a pirate does not make it PVP. It is self defense. And the guns a transport can mount are not capable of defeating much of anything except small NPC fighters. Oh ... and their good for mining operations as well. Other than that ... a trader's guns aren't worth much and you could not possibly win a PVP match ever.
Folks ... a pirate attacking a trader is completely different than two combat vessels in the heat of combat.
Now ... if you wanna apply these PVP rules to traders, then a trader that does not pay the tax and flees, dies, docks or whatever to avoid being pirated ... you'd have to not return to the system you got pirated for 4 hours or receive a sanction (which typically equates to all your credits and is kinda more expensive than paying the pirate). And since pirates tend to chase these traders all the way to the base they intend to sell their goods ... it would mean the trader would no longer be able to use that route for 4 hours. So bye bye diamond run. Oh yeah ... and if you hire mercs or bounty hunters ... if they engage the pirate while you escape ... you are still running and thus lost the right to trade for 4 hours.
So ... go ahead and push for applying a PVP rule to a piracy event. You won't get freedom to trade simply because you lost out (which a trader HAS to dock to sell his goods anyway). Problem is ... traders won't follow the 4 hour rule when they have a high paying route. I'd think a trader would rather pay 500k to a pirate when his average profit is upwards of 5-9 million credits. Come on man ... 500k is pennies to what you'd get on your daily take.
What you are actually trying to loophole here is for pirates to leave you alone so you can make billions of credits without any danger. Your argument is not based on role play. Your argument is to be able to make money without having to interact with anyone. Like most traders ... they would rather make their money free and clear without having to mess with those pesky pirates so the trader can buy that big shiny battle cruiser to hunt the pirate with.
I've got example after example of traders that will do anything to keep people from pirating them. Many of them are quoting rules that don't exist and complaining/whining about pirates taking their money. One of the most common is when they see me login, the immediately swap out of their trade vessels and pop into their capship (which seems to always come to Sigma 13 to hunt me down).
I'm a bit tired of these traders constantly loopholing the piracy role play. The house systems are extremely difficult to pirate in ... which is why I do everything I can to avoid pirating in house systems. Pirates should have the advantage in independent and rim systems ... but for some reason I see independent military/police in Liberty, Rheinland and Kusari vessels (with Military or Police IDs from those houses) flying about Sigmas. Role play is for everyone ... not just the house militaries, police, bounty hunters and mercenaries.
Do me a favor mazdamack ... if you're gonna trade in a transport ... role play a trader ... NOT a combat vessel.
' Wrote:Traders are not built for combat and thus are not intended for PVP. To use a trade vessel in a PVP situation is OORP. A trader firing their guns at a pirate does not make it PVP. It is self defense. And the guns a transport can mount are not capable of defeating much of anything except small NPC fighters. Oh ... and their good for mining operations as well. Other than that ... a trader's guns aren't worth much and you could not possibly win a PVP match ever.
Have you seen what a pirate transport with mk4 transport turrets can do? Two of them can take down a gunboat. Its great for piracy as it has a CD on it. If that ship isn't used for combat then people are missing a trick. It can take down fighters by the bucketload. Its an awesome little ship. And yes, as soon as one player shoots at another player, that is pvp. It is one player trying to destroy another players ship, thus pvp.
' Wrote:Have you seen what a pirate transport with mk4 transport turrets can do? Two of them can take down a gunboat. Its great for piracy as it has a CD on it. If that ship isn't used for combat then people are missing a trick. It can take down fighters by the bucketload. Its an awesome little ship. And yes, as soon as one player shoots at another player, that is pvp. It is one player trying to destroy another players ship, thus pvp.
Yes ... but you'll notice its a "Pirate" transport. Its a ship you should not see lawful traders flying in. And any decent pirate would not attempt to pirate one of these vessels. Please not, a Trader ID on this ship would be a bit OORP. And there's discussion about making this ship available for pirates to use during piracy in order to take more than 400 units of cargo.
With regard to PVP. Just because you have guns does not make it PVP. A transport is not likely to be "trying to destroy" a pirate in a gunboat. These are defensive weapons. The only way a transport can take down a gunboat is if there are multiple transports working together. And usually several of them will be taken out before the pirate goes down. I know ... I've been there ... don't mess with A51 transports when they are working in concert. Took on about 6 transports of various shapes and sizes and got run off. But ... they are traders transporting goods. The re-engagement rule does not apply because they cannot be the aggressor. Transport going offensive against a pirate would be OORP. Best thing a trader could do is hire bounty hunters to protect them. But then that means the trader would have to spend money ... since I only ask for 500k ... and the trader typically puts a 10 mil bounty on traders ... um ... math problem here folks.
i know when im beat and when im not. if im busted deep in omicron space with no way out, i have no choice to pay the tax. it seem to me that a smart pirate (such as SpaceBandito) would not pirate next to a base, hole, ot gate to begin with. Too easy to get a head start or to dissapear. As far as the 4 hour rule, I do try to follow the rules, and i can always find a better route. I had no intention of returning, there are always other goods to sell. But taxing a Transport (not class, the ship) for 2 mil basically cost be half a route, and that is only if i run into one pirate on the 4 stop route.
I think will just sit on my hands and mumble to myself like the guy said earlier when in house systems.
Quote:Jinx (in a sanction report) -
"better remember that talking to them about it should be done before you go off and report them. - a sanction often hurts more than it helps - assistance and understanding can - in a lot of situations be much more beneficial. "
Quote:Xoria (about cheaters\modders)
He can run from Tenacity, but he can't hide from Ioncross
Quote:(out of context, so not gonna name em'
NY is the portal to the very darkest regions of the netherworld.
![[Image: DramaticExit.gif]](https://sig.grumpybumpers.com/host/DramaticExit.gif)
