Bomber balance

[Blodo]

Note: What I post below is a concept. I want to discuss this before any stats proposals will be posted.

See, after yet another failed bombing session in my Thor against capship whorage I come to the conclusion bombers in this mod are using the wrong approach. Despite what some people think makes or breaks a fighter/bomber, the most significant attribute of all has got to be the hitbox and it's agility. As long as you can't get hit and you have some evading skill, you're very well untouchable. In the case of capital ships it is especially a difference with it's extremely fast guns, if the target is big or small. Some bombers are exquisitely big targets, so they turn out to be useless against capital ships. Which to me defeats the point of having a bomber.

Now what I propose is that all bigger bombers be actually made smaller and/or with a higher strafe speed, but to prevent them from turning into fighter busters, the bomber's turn rate should be significantly reduced to a point of just above the most agile gunboat. Some bombers don't need the size reduction (like the red catamaran), but others need it desperately (like the thor) so it can actually be of any use against the target it is meant to be good against, namely a capital ship. With the reduced turn speed it will be possible for VHFs to keep to a rear of a bomber, and bombers with ambition to destroy anything without fighter screens would be a thing of the past. It would only encourage more team work and mixed attacking groups.

Discuss.

[Eppy]

I think this would be a case of 'making everything the same' and I wholeheartedly disagree. We're living in a time where two bombers can destroy most Battleships if they can dodge (which, admittedly, not all of them can, but most of them). This is a problem. Giving the bombers more is just going to hurt the capital ships again and make them even bigger wastes of money. I'm sorry, but I originally came here because I could roleplay my own Starship Enterprises. If I end up dieing every damn time I launch it's hardly worth showing up, is it? Leave some room for us capwhored, too.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[Tenacity]

I cant say I agree either, bombers are deadly enough to capships, making them turn or strafe more quickly would put things over the top.

However, Someone else mentioned a while back that giving bombers access to freighter-class shields would help things out quite a bit.

For the numbers, a class 10 fighter shield has around 10,000 points, while a class 10 freighter shield is something like 24,000 points. It'd give the bombers a little more survivability and staying power, but wouldnt make them any more overpowered than they are now.

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[chopper]

Heh, me, after some time..

Well, anyway, I think it's a good idea.
For you, so called, 'cap whores' - well, get some VHF's to watch your butts.
Bombers should be way less effective against fighters, even though it is kinda unfair for some of us that learned how to fight against fighters.
It isn't easy, in any way, to beat a VHF in a bomber.
And it's almost impossible to beat a skilled VHF in a bomber (well, unless you'r flying a catamaran).

It isn't easy for two bombers to beat a BS either.
And it IS impossible for two Thor's to beat a BS, unless he's blind or very new in FL universe.

Just my opinion. I'm still on leave, but I just decided to see what's going on on board.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[Zapp]

Chopper! The LPI needs you! Anyways... I gotta go with Eppy on this one: bombers are the best class of ship in the game right now, no need to make them better.

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[chopper]

Well, I can't help it, I won't be active any time soon. I don't want to re-new (or whatever's the word) a second year, so no computer for me!

Anyway, point is that Bloodo did not suggest an improvement.
He actually suggested the most logical thing.
Make bombers more vulnerable to fighters, and make some of them (not all of them) smaller so they can actually survive a capital ship.
He did not suggest a 80k energy capacity and LF size.

Who flies a Thor knows what I mean. I can only guess how bad Barghest is, or Waran.

I know few of them that are perfectly fine, like Taiidan, Snubnose, Challenger and Falcata.

So, if you can make bombers more vulnerable to fighters, but not making them useless against capital ships - I'm all for it.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[Jinx]

i only have experience with the BHG bomber ( ok, i fly the praetorian, too... but i only shoot transports with it and run from any other ship that may attempt to shoot me and is either smaller than a transport or better armed ) - but the BHG bomber does extremely well against capital ships. no capship is able to hit me when i am dodging it - i cannot shoot meanwhile, cause i haven t figured that one out yet ( how to effectivly dodge AND shoot my SN ) but i m working on it.

right now, even some gunboats that are a lot bigger than most bombers and less agile aren t easy to hit. - for example, a scorpion gunboat is only a blob a few pixels big from the turret point of view of a juggernaut when they keep the distance ( which they can, cause they have thrusters )
now when i think of bombers - it makes my eyes ache. they are extremely small - and when a bomber circles my juggernaut, there is little to do about it ( well, when its only one bomber i simply ignore it - or better, i have plenty of time to call people to assist )

bombers haven t got to make straight approaches in order to deliver their torpedos. - other games need a bomber to keep the target in their HUD a long time ( like 20 seconds straight in freespace 2 ) in order to have the torpedo lock in. - freelancer doesn t know lock on timers - the torp simply fires like an unguided rocket. so there is no "technical" issue that prevents someone with good aim to even fly circles while he fires. - delivering a torp into a battleship is easy - too easy atm. hitting smaller warships can be more difficult of course... but its not near as hard as hitting the bomber from the capital ships point of view.

so i wouldn t really support that idea either. - bombers are too strong as they are. ( they must be, cause we don t have the number of players that would turn bomber vs. warships into something realistic - i guess only a game like EVE online with its thousands of players can really afford to make it so that several bomber wings are needed to kill a battleship )
imo, bombers could be smaller and faster, if they needed some time to lock in and fly straight ( or as straight as possible ) towards the warship - each side needs a reasonable chance to inflict damage.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[pim]

I for the "increase efficiency of fighters against bombers". A skilled bomber pilot couldn't aim a skilled fighter pilot... But most people aren't that skilled, and a minimum of difference is enough (for example, I have a friend,like me, he can't stand 1 to 1 PvP, but when we work together, we rocks !).
Consequence : bombers become fighters with a big gun who can shot your hull in one shot, in B vs F fights...

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OK for gentle RP, OK for gentle PvP too. What do you prefer ?
Hurk hurk hurk...

[\JG/]Pim (mercenary, ex-IMG)(Raven's talon, New London and New Berlin mainly)
John Smith(independant trader, ex-contract killer on Manhattan)(Heavy Tanker)

[mjolnir]

Actually I'm going with the skeptics here....most bombers work fine... Thor works fine as well IF you keep distance from the capships. This is somehow difficult in the asteroidfield in Omega 5, on the other hand you can hide behind the rocks....

Thor needs the biggerpowerplant and it will be ok...

some days ago 3 Fighters (1LF+2VHF) + 1 Thor have killed 3 GBs and 1 Cruiser just there. The cruiser was a bit inexperienced yes... but the GBs were ok.

EDIT: And some of the big and slow bombers- like Barghest can get the 24k shield + powerplant to make them different and usefull.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[sovereign]

I like Mjolnir's suggestion of giving the fat ones (Barghest, Thor, etc) fat shields. And fat powerplants. Although there is the issue of what that would do to fighting off fighters...

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